M … He might want to take Primus’s place? Although, becoming the head of the House … of the Chosen? Cadaver?
Mda, not for me to go into the psychology of Arthas. He would rather be the Chosen One than the Cadaver, right?
Hmm … I don’t think too often?
So far the novel has not replaced anything that happened in the WC3 game.
If the books deviates from what I have said so far then please present it.
Because so far very little has proven why Sylvanas should be afforded a redemption arc but arthas does’t.
If Arthas was going anywhere - other than the maw or some new fresh hell - it seems Revendreth would be the place.
I dont buy any of this malarkey about Arthas having good intentions. His intentions were merely projections of his hubris and willful disregard of others. He may have claimed he was working for some end, but he was only being the brat who demands satisfaction.
If his intention was to save his people and his kingdom, he did a lousy job of it. I would hate to put him anywhere near the forces defending the Shadowlands. Putting Arthas in charge of taking care of anything is like putting an arsonist in the fire department.
Could you please give us real lore reasons why you don’t buy this? Was Arthas secretly happy he was given the excuse to kill the people at Stratholm? Did Arthas go to Northrend under a pretex to find a way to come back as a conqueror of kingdoms?
That is the only way your premise could work. In the book I am sure they are going to give us more details on his personality than a strategy game like he likes french toast and kicks puppies but that doesn’t make him responsible for what the sword made him do… UNLESS he wanted to do it before the sword anyway.
If you got that then I admit I am fully wrong and the lore had changed and I just never read the book so I was ignorant.
So did Sylvanas, her efforts to save her kingdom left much to be desired.
See how that works?
There’s never a “good” excuse to kill people. Even with Stratholm. He may have thought he was doing what was best by killing the peasants and stopping the infection, but he was still murdering innocent people, hence why characters with stronger moral compasses, ie: Uther and Jaina, refused to support him while he did it.
He did this before the influence of Zorvaal. To say that Arthas was always morally comprimised is just fact.
That isn’t at all what she said.
They were already dead though. At that point what would have been the alternative?
Since you read the book can you please give another example? Or give a more indepth answer the example above? Either I am missing some facts or we are doing what I mentioned earlier.
We make a 100 weak excuses for why Sylvanas did what she does and become Judge Dredd for everything that Arthas does.
Arthas chose to wield Frostmourne and that led to the murder of his father and the scourging of their kingdom - and Quelthalas.
He personally killed the king of Lordaeron. That is why he is an abysmal protector if that were his intention. He was more concerned with his hubris and pride.
Your comparison is off, because Sylvanas didn’t choose to wield a weapon in the name of defending Quelthalas, only to then use that weapon to kill her own king. Arthas did.
In fact, Arthas killed her king, too.
You acknowledged you haven’t read the Arthas book. It does indeed go in to his personality.
Muradin calls him out early for being bratty. (I love that Dwarf). There are a bunch of scenes that detail his dark side and negative attitudes, that someone who only played the RTS clearly would not know. Like breaking Invincible when he knew he shouldn’t ride it hard. Or telling Jaina he will not be denied.
They were still alive, is death by force better than death from sickness?
The thing is, they didn’t even talk about options. Arthas made a decision and would not listen to anyone’s council. This is his fatal flaw.
I’m sure there were other options. They could have locked down the city. Called on the expertise of mages. He had a mage with him, he could have asked her opinion. There were lots of other options.
What annoys me is Arthas is a hammer that sees every problem as a nail. People like that are not helping anyone.
We have already discussed why this doesnt work and if you want to know why then please scroll up. If you want to present any arguments or facts to support your view then you have to point towards Arthas innerthoughts and actions that had bad intentions BEFORE he touched the sword.
Your argument is very weak and doesn’t convince anyone but the few here that were already big supporters of Sylvanas anyway.
Hence why I asked you to give us insight to BEFORE the sword had been touched but you keep re-iterating things we saw in WC3 with little to no deviation with very little new insight.
None of these are indicative that the mass slaughters and every crime after the sword had been grabbed are his and his alone.
There are big double standards in how you judge Arthas versus how you judge Sylvanas.
He will definitely want to correct others in the course of the next eternity? Although, denying someone else’s will is fine for this.
“There are no innocent people.”
Anyway. If you carry out acrobatics with logic, without killing the plague people, he kills the knights and everyone to whom the dead break through.
What’s the “ideal” solution to a trolley problem with five and one people: step on the brakes and warn of your coming? How does this apply to Artes? M … The ban on grain from Andorhal, and … kill the villagers, sending messengers to Stratholme to shout and to all other settlements with the task of reporting Mal’Ganis, his hammer, the plague?
she said that he still choose, but zovaal was influencing every Desicion he made…so, she said her brother is not innocent but, it is not as easy as simply to say “Arthas fully evil”
Again, that’s not what she said. You’re exaggerating what she did say and inflating it to more than she stated.
then post pls what she said
I see where you are coming from with the trolley problem and that logic would have been sound logic if it weren’t for the dreadlord whispering in Arthas’s ear to kill everyone.
From the already linked quests’s SAAL bit:
Calia Menethil says: The specter of my brother hangs over all of us like a shroud. His choices were his own, though it does seem his fate was shaped in part by the hand of the Jailer.
The Jailer influenced Arthas’s fate. Nothing more, nothing less.
But you know that the FATESCRIBER can really determine your whole life, it can determine when what happens to you, and even determine how exactly.
“Change your entire fate” is in wow…not a “little thing”
No they were dead anyway, its like a plunging aircraft into a crowded city or building. Do you shoot the plane down and save the other people on the ground or do you let the plane hit because you don’t want to kill innocent people still alive aboard the plane?
If I had to make that decision, I would shoot the plane down and save those who I can.
What about you? Would you shoot the plane down?
Yes that is an absolute flaw. In the book did anyone offer any other solutions that Arthas shut down as well and went with his original plan?
Jaina was a mage genuis and she couldn’t do anything, Uther was the greatest living paladin and he couldn’t do anything. Locking the city down from the outside is called sieging and was Arthas prepared for a siege? Against an undead army led by a dreadlord?
Thats a perfectly ok thing to be bothered about a character. I love my stories to be full of characters with different personality and failings. It makes them more human to me.
You alliance people are all the same. You love Arthas but you crap on Sylvanas. It is the worst kind of hypocrisy in this community. Frat bros culture is a plague. You are the perfect example of it.
Like… What does that even have to do with what we’re talking about? Is the Fatescribe Calia? Arthas? Zovaal?
Why are you shifting the goal post?