The one quote you leveled towards to me that supposedly proved Arthas was not holding back the Lichking from unleashing scourge on the world was a totally false.
Why do you make things up to support your view even though there is no basis for it?
That isn’t someone kinda-sorta resisting Zovaal totally dominating them.
It’s a sign of a person having a conscience.
Arthas literally had to get rid of his heart because it was “weakening him”. That to me shows that there was still a part trying to resist/convince Arthas to change.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: What’s this!
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: He… he kept it? All this time, he kept it!
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I knew!
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I sensed a part of him still alive! Trapped… struggling… Oh, Arthas!
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Perhaps - perhaps he might someday remember what he once was.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: By the Light, may he at last find rest, free from the icy grip of that terrible blade.
The argument “to save his people” would probably carry more weight if he didn’t commit regicide and destroy his own kingdom as the first action after grabbing the sword.
Did he really save anyone? Or did his actions (even pre grabbing the sword, ie: Stratholm) just quicken the Jailer’s victory?
He was an easy pawn. Sadly that’s all Arthas’s story serves to show.
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Yes.
His conscience.
Like I just said.
I have already linked what Jaina thought. She says Arthas was still struggling. Meaning he was trying to get back control
His.
Conscience.
And as Zahir so kindly pointed out, it’s all irrelevant. New lore takes presedence over old lore.
New lore says he resisted Zovaal’s will. Arthas’s will was his own, per the person who was trying to not let that happen.
So either I’m right or I’m still right.
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New lore doesn’t trump old lore where it is silent. And as far as we know whatever the Lich King was when he awoke, it was neither Ner’zhul or Arthas but something totally different.
It wasnt just his concience. It was a literal piece of him. So like Sylvanas there was a part of him that would have never done what the Lich King did. Akin to how if Ranger General Sylvanas was there she would never do what the Banshee did.
Current lore doesn’t retcon their statement about Arthas being evil before wielding Frostmourne.
I hope your statement counts across the board and not when it’s convenient for head canon or lack of details.
Just to ensure we’re all on the same sheet of music, I’m talking about whether Arthas was evil before wielding Frostmourne.
Can you please provide those current different views that counter the ask cdev statement?
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Correct. And it’s not silent on this subject.
Arthas resisted Zovaal’s will. Not kinda-sorta resisted. Not itty bitty resisted. Not resisted in this one, singular way.
Arthas resisted Zovaal.
Simple as.
Your conscience is literally a piece of you, Zerde.
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Zerde we don’t agree a lot, but I can agree with this statement.
Edit: I’m making a parallel point with Amadis
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Key word.
AFTER he grabbed the sword.
And one could say The Ranger General side of Sylvanas is her concience. So this is really a moot point.
The New Lich King still considered himself both Arthas and Ner’zhul(he even gave a whole speech about being a shaman)but not really them either.
Then he’s just the dumbest WOW character hands down.
Do you not worry that lack of control also means everything good about Arthas now is moot?
I’ve been struggling with this with Sylvanas too and it’s not the best option. The 'it was the Jailer all along" destroys both Arthas and Sylvanas’s characterizations and makes them feel… used for nothing.
As an Arthas fan I’m sure on some level you can relate.
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It isn’t if you followed the conversation. I literally 10000% back this up.
And yet they were seperate, regardless of their feelings. When they died, Ner’zhul’s soul was found in the Sanctum. Arthas’s soul was not with him. They were not one and the same, they were canonically seperate according to the new lore.
Or it just means whatever the entity that was the Lich King is gone and the “component” souls ended up getting sent to the Maw.
On that note, a sudden though occured to me. Considering Ner’zhul was sent to the Maw I wonder if merely being influenced by domination is an automatic ticket to the Maw.
It is, and I think you are just trying a distinction that does not exist. That ones concience/soul is just one and the same thing.
If they could be seperated, they were not one. You can’t take the cream out of coffee. You can’t take the sugar out either.
If they went their seperate ways after death, their souls were not merged; they just acted in concert.
You literally just made that same distinction.
Don’t go dunking on yourself already.
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Then what is the point of calling it concience. Whatever was resisting the Lich King was Arthas. You can say it was just a concience or even just a part of his soul but it was just as much Arthas any anything else.
Honestly, you are just being pendantic at this point.
It is called “magic” and yes, one can potentially be “one” and separated later. As shown by what happens to Varian. You can be a distinct person/soul and be split and when you are merge you can potentially something else(not exactly the same person)
Please explain to me how he is dumb without using hindsight.
I am not going to put words in your mouth so can you please explain what you mean by everything good?
I always separated Arthas from Deathknight Arthas. He was so completely different from when I started the human campaign compared to the undead campaign.
The first time I saw Arthas again after frostmourne was at the end of WOTLK, I never considred Jailer though but the Lich King entity in the helmet and sword was a way to brainwash Arthas. All in all it was a pretty good fallen hero storyline.
Sylvanas for me is the worst case. She regained her freedom, she tried to kill Arthas and almost succeeded. She made an undead kingdom and ever since then freewill was a hallmark of her identity. She was pretty cool all in all. Then her story went downhill in BFA, nothing made sense anymore and now its the it was Jailer all along. No I don’t like it.
She started doing what Arthas did but no mind control to justify it, all for some vague notion that she was seeing the big picture but we are all too dumb/ignorant to see it.
Well we see it now and its still super dumb.
I am not an Arthas fan. I try to judge characters and their stories objectively and it really puzzles me some people here seem to have a hundred weak excuses for Sylvanas despite her many chances to do thing differently but become judge Dredd when it comes to Arthas.
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