I will say, the sheer amount of headcanon going on here to defend Arthas is legitmately amazing. Some of y’all need to become lawyers or politicians and apply these skills where they will easily earn you a fortune if you can justify and defend mass murder by an arrogant man whose own words and thoughts contradict all y’all have said in those professions.
Seriously, kudos!!
It’s literally the opposite.
People are deadass saying “Well, Arthas picked up Frostmourn, so that makes him evil.” totally ignoring the context of his situation, his motivations, and the utter vagueness of its curse.
It’s like, WoW has become so bad, that the only people left playing the game are people who have a full on, medically diagnosable mental block that prevents them from having a thought that deviates from Sylvansa fanboyism.
Has Frostmourne’s rise been compared to Sylvanas’ suicide?
No, an ill-conceived comparison. Sylvanas was tortured when she chose. Mda.
I agree. His actions have been completely distorted to just fixate on defending him, just to find some possible way to use this headcanon Good Boy Arthas as a way to further their hate of Sylvanas. They have gone so far as to take away the character’s own agency in his own actions, to ignore Zovaal’s own words that past Lich Kings sucked because they just kept resisting his will, just so they can point to their pet mass murderer and say “not as bad as Sylvanas”.
I mean, people could just accept that both are bad people who did bad things and both were manipulated by the same cosmic demigod to do those bad things.
But instead, people gotta say the dude is just misunderstood, and the woman’s utterly irredeemable.
Nah.
Because the same people you’re arguing with agree Sylvanas deserves Revendreth because she did a lot of evil. But that there are extenuating circumstances for that evil because the writers are terrible. Circumstances those same terrible writers haven’t (yet) applied to Best Boy Arthas, who should also go to Revendreth.
You know we have the book that shows us what was going on in his head? It does tell us even in his darkest moment he still did want to protected his people.
That can just as well mean that Arthas kept holding back because there was still some goon in him. The fact he had to chuck his own heart mean a small part of his still tried to resist. Hell, he still kept several mementos of his pre-Helm life.
Nah that is not it at all. It’s Sylvanas fans points at their favorite mass murderer and saying “Not evil at all. Nope. Totally justified.”
Prior to Frostmourn, Arthas didn’t do anything that I would consider evil, imo. And I think people saying otherwise are lying to themselves. As I mentioned before, I am not even a big Arthas fan.
Sylvanas deserves the Maw
And yet, they are not forcing you to grossly misrepresent Arthas’s history, deeds and stated motivations.
I think you’re just obsessed here.
Then why go to such lengths and mental gymnastics to go out of your way to defend him as some noble Best Boy?
Nah. World-breakers and worse get Revendreth. So does Sylvanas.
Because I am not doing that at all.
Because I think his actions are being grossly over villainized by Sylvanas fan boys.
I don’t need to be a fan to notice when something is being treated unfairly.
Sylvanas is worse than anyone we have seen in Revendreth.
And the RTS and books and MMO apparently!! Because you keep going on to understate them compared to how they have been treated in every media thus far.
Not really. You’re just still hurt by her actions and have taken this hurt as evidence of the severity of her crimes, compared to others. Because those other characters didn’t hurt you.
… is anyone actually arguing that Arthas deserves a ‘happy ending’, or just that he deserves the same chance for repentance/redemption that Sylvanas appears to be getting given that his greatest acts of evil were committed while his soul was not merely damaged as hers was, but completely removed?
Or perhaps you are overstating them.
Just a thought.
That is kind of the point.
Sylvanas has hurt more people. She has not only used Arthas’ victims as disposable tools, but also has gone on to create new victims for herself. All without being dominated by an outside force.
Nope. Going by how things are actually depicted is hardly an overstatement.
Yes. She has hurt more players. But player feelings aren’t really in-game sins or crimes.
Nope.
See, I can do it too.
And she has hurt more in-game people as well too. But you conveniently ignored that. And you wonder why I might suspect you of intentionally understating Arthas’ crimes.
You can, but it doesn’t make you right.
The existence of those books, that RTS and the current MMO back me up.
I don’t ignore it, because it’s unsupported. How many did she hurt? How many did Arthas? Where are there any numbers whatsoever?
Both destroyed two kingdoms. Lordaeron and Quel’Thalas for Arthas, Gilneas and Darnassus for Sylvanas. Among both, the single number we get is “90% of all high elves died”. Sylvanas has “a wound the night elves will never recover from” which is ambiguous, but let’s say is also 90%. Gilneas was already suffering losses from the Cataclysm and their own worgen population before Sylvy even got there, meaning if numbers were to be assumed, she certainly did less damage than Arthas did to nearly the entirety of Lordaeron. And we know plenty of Gilneans escaped Gilneas, from the end of their questline to the two other setlements they founded away from normal Alliance lands. Both have untold crimes beyond those kingdoms, with Arthas’s crusade across Northrend and a shot at Kalimdor and the EK being considered massive events by NPC dialog, so he would certainly edge out a lead there compared to Sylvanas’s campaign pre-BfA being mostly secretive, and her BfA actions post-WoT being almost exclusively failures.
No, I don’t ignore it. I just don’t overinflate it. I don’t decide because of my own hurt that the one must outweigh the other.
I literally have never wondered that Aki. I’ve seen you post around here. I’m well-accustomed to your tendency for dishonest conversations, petty shots at people, willful ignorance of lore than doesn’t support your beliefs, and general bad faith arguments. As soon as you made the claim I was “understating” (you meant overstating BTW) Arthas’s crimes, I knew exactly how this would go; more of the same conflating your personal feelings of pain with the lore.
I think there’s a very obvious middle ground that particularly the exclusively hardcore Sylvanas fan’s have a hard time accepting.
Both did bad things, and neither one is worse than the other.
Neither were evil monsters prior to being corrupted, and following their corruption did relatively equal acts under the same circumstances and thus are deserving of the same treatment for their conclusions.
Trying to paint Arthas in a worse light while painting Sylvanas in a better light is just disingenuous discussion.
Those here supporting Arthas aren’t trying to understate Sylvanas, but it seems most here supporting Sylvanas are trying to overstate Arthas.
Just because someone is trying to support Arthas in this thread doesn’t mean they hate Sylvanas. And I’d hope that just because you’re supporting Sylvanas doesn’t mean you hate Arthas. The proper stance is to treat them equally. I personally love them both, they are without a doubt my two most favorite characters.
Arthas doesn’t deserve the Maw. He, just like every soul that wasn’t judged and ever soul that isn’t whole, deserves to be rescued and brought before the Arbiter. Arthas and Sylvanas both deserve a proper send off, and peaceful endings. I don’t necessarily think they should both be sent to Revendreth. Arthas and Sylvanas should both become joint wardens of Torghast. This would allow Sylvanas to search for Nathanos without being stuck in Revendreth.
This is the objective truth.
The only real differences between the two involve Zovaal shenanigans; Sylvanas got her soul smiggled and left a good Sylvie and bad Sylvie half or fraction or whatever. Arthas got… Ambiguously meddled with.
Both, regardless of personal opinions on the characters, have mitigating circumstances for their actions. Sylvanas’s are clear now, while Arthas either had his soul corrupted, had it taken from him, had his good side expelled, or dear god whatever Danuser decides makes him soul like a good writer and it’ll probably end up not even being addressed.
Nope. No way. Nobody deserves such a terrible fate. Imagine an eternity running Torghast?
You are cruel, Lore. Very, very cruel.
… Maybe just have them guard the Maw. At least they can ride their mounts there now.
This last bit has been an attempt at humor so don’t take it too seriously, people about to take it too seriously!!
It was far from a selfless act. It’s the epitome of selfishness because he making his decisions with no guidance other than his own innate stubbornness and his reaction to having his buttons pushed by Mal’Ganis. From start to end he actually listened to no one but his foes. It’s the epitome of headstrong and foolishness and those are selfish qualities.
I’m not really sure how making them wardens of torghast is cruel, could you explain?
I don’t think they should be locked up inside like Zovaal was. They would be able to freely come and go as they pleased, it’d just be their job to ensure the prisoners were not trying to escape.
They’d both be able to move around the Shadowlands, so Arthas could visit Uther and Sylvanas could travel around in search of Nathanos.
Unless there was a retcon since WC3 days Arthas’ whole character motivation was to save his kingdom from demons that infected his people with a zombie plague.
His personal shortcomings like being stubborn, not listening to advice and so on just make him human and that isn’t sin.
Whatever he did after he took the sword isn’t really his fault with the whole mind melding and control that frostmourne and the helmet did to him.
Sylvanas with no mind control excuse has done what Arthas has done. So if she is going to get some sort of redemption arc or get a chance to make things right then so should Arthas.
You condem him then you condem Sylvanas as well. There is just no getting around it unless there is blatant hypocrisy.
Get it? Running Torghast forever? As in, like, having to do Torghast runs for all eternity?
Sorry, my jokes just don’t always land.