They’re still both victims.
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One is the victim, the other is her abuser.
I leave it to you to fill in the rest
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Because one is a victim of their own making, and the other is the first one’s victim.
Arthas’s damnation came about by choices he made to get there. Sylvanas’s damnation came because Arthas was mad at her for defending her people a bit too much.
Both deserve Revendreth, but pretending they’re equal is ignoring all the circumstances that led them down their paths.
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The point is that they are still BOTH victims. And Arthas isn’t a victim of his own making, he was groomed by forces beyond his control. He is a victim of the forces of Death, and clearly a victim of uncontrollable fate/destiny just like everyone else which Sylvanas understood.
So no, it’s not acceptable at all to victim blame Arthas.
Literally every choice he made that led to him picking up Frostmourne is his own choice. This is how it has always been depicted, and Shadowlands has not changed that.
Yes, he’s a victim of his own making.
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Sylvanas herself doesn’t even agree with you. There is no choice if there are no other options to select from, nor when you aren’t even the one making the decision(s) in the first place.
He was chosen long before the Scourge even began to form, and he was groomed to ensure he played exactly into the hands of Death. His fate was sealed and there was nothing that could be done about it.
He is a victim of outside forces, not of his own making.
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When has Sylvanas ever said Arthas had no choice?
Except we know that can’t be true, because we’ve seen the PC and Sylvanas go against Zovaal’s plans. Zovaal isn’t some fate-spinning, ultra-successful master plotter who can see your moves before you even think of them. We have abundant evidence of that.
Arthas made choices. Those choices damned him. End of story.
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That’s incorrect, and not relevant to zovaal specifically.
Everything has been pre-destined to happen by the first ones. It’s why they placed the waystones in the maw and Zereth mortis. Sylvanas, as I said, even tells us all our choices have been selected for us.
Everything that has been happening was outside anyone’s control.
So no, once again arthas isn’t a victim of his own making but a victim of forces beyond his control.
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Utterly irrelevant hogwash, and over-inflation of comments made with no backing. Until we see that everything is actually pre-ordained, that everything is fully mapped out by the first ones, this holds as much meaning as Cthun telling us we were already dead. Y’all looking at hyperbole and taking it at face value.
Arthas made choices. Arthas’s choices damned him. Simple fact.
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Then so did Sylvanas.
She made choices and those choices damned her.
They are on the same level, and must be treated equally.
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The act that sent her down her path was Arthas killing and torturing her. She did not choose that. Arthas did. This isn’t too hard to figure out.
I already said that both deserve Revendreth, so you’re not making a big, shocking statement here.
But they are not equal. Once again, Arthas was damned by his own choices. Sylvanas was damned by a choice made by Arthas.
They deserve the same punishment. They are not equal.
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Every choice Sylvanas made was her own. That’s not true for Arthas.
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Done! Whipped up an old set from MoP that I’d never tried before. Ah, MoP- the last time I think I was truly happy with the game despite it having too many dailies and not enough dungeons.
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Even if every choice Arthas made was clear-headed, with no external manipulation, there’s worse people in Revendreth.
And Slyvanas voluntarily sent soldiers who trusted her and followed her orders to Super Hell to have their souls painfully annihilated as fuel for her plan.
They’re both abusive, terrible, and genuinely bad people. Who have reasons for why they are the way they are.
And they should get their turn on front of the Arbiter. …or, if I was feeling poetic, Arthas should be judged by Slyvanas and Sylvanas should be judged by Delaryn.
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I wasn’t influenced and subdued by a sword and helm of domination. Arthas’ story wasn’t just him getting older and experiencing life. There was this thing… with Malganis… and a sword and helm…
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And him making choices willingly that led to him picking up Frostmourne. Seems y’all want to forget that part
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It’s a bit more nuanced than that. At his core, Arhas was a wilful stubborn child. He expressed that willfulness in both his enthusiasm to help and protect his people and then later to decimate those very same people. His actions both wealsome and woeful are expressions of the same core personality traits.
No. No one is forgetting that part. It all started even before he actually picked up frostmourne. Arthas wasn’t a bad guy before that. No one in the story was weary or suspicious of Arthas before the culling of stratholme. Thats why they were shocked that he was going to do it.
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You’re missing the nuance.
Arthas was a flawed person. With very specific flaws that manifested in how he was a Paladin, Death Knight, Lich King. All three were expressions of the same basic personality.
You speak as though picking up a magical item is somehow more evil than willfully choosing to burn children alive and sending them to super hell.
Picking up Frostmourn was a selfless act. In that moment, he laid down his life to save his homeland and his people. Totally willing to burden the curse attached to it.
He had no idea what the curse would later lead him to do. All he knew is that the consequences were going to be his to suffer alone in the Frozen North, far away from everyone he was trying to protect.