He took the sword willingly, so everything that he did afterward stemmed from his choice, and is his fault for choosing as such.
Actually, hubris, pride, and other similar shortcomings can be sins in both IRL religions and in WoWs afterlife - so, yes, he can be regarded as sinful in such a context.
Your myopic perspective does not limit the facts and the canon lore.
We can condem Arthas and aid Sylvanas in redemption, because Arthas chose to condemn himself and Lordaeron and Sylvanas. While Sylvanas chose a clean death, and was robbed of her choice by Arthas.
The Fair Haired Prince denied a Female the right to choose. It says a lot about those who defend Arthas.
Is your argument that regardless of his original intentions, the circumstances and all the rest. The fact that he made a choice to pick up the sword would mean he is inherently fully responsible as though he was an active participant for all the things the sword and the magic helmet made him do? Did I get that right?
Well no human is perfect and we all have deficiencies but I doubt such sins warrant a super hell.
Especially when you are attributing these sinful traits as somehow indicative and cause for his apparent genocide of his own kingdom.
Well yeah if you want to bend yourself into a pretzel to condemn Arthas but make a saint out of Sylvanas.
Being fair haired or not makes no impact on what terrible things Sylvanas was put through. What is worse is that you can’t seem to allow culprit to assume responsibility for their actions or attribute the same gravity of their behavior.
Just because someone was victimized does not excuse them on any level for what they do.
Thats like saying domestic abuse is fine because the abuser used to be abused similarly. No sir. Both are equally bad.
That’s an interesting set of words to put into peoples’ mouths.
…Anyway, Sylvanas chose to pull almost the same stunt with Delaryn down the line and then there’s the whole thing with Koltira and the Proudmoore boy.
I’m not arguing that Arthas (or Sylvanas) are in any way good people who I would invite over to dinner with the Sledgehammer family. What I am saying is that Arthas doesn’t seem to meet the standards for a soul that should be immediately yeeted into the Maw. He ‘deserves’ a chance at redemption.
The Maw has pretty steadily (since introduction) been defined as the worst thing that can happen to a soul in the WoW universe. It’s an agonizing, violent, intrusive dissolution of everything a soul is.
If someone who sent a bunch of people who trusted her to that fate voluntarily and with full knowledge that they were being ripped apart for fuel in horrific ways ‘deserves’ a second chance, so does the spoiled egotistical prig who was hella easy to manipulate. There’s no great analogue for the Maw in our world, but sending her own troops there is probably my vote for the worst thing Sylvanas did.
But both Sylvanas and Arthas denied a lot of “Females”, males, children, and adorable kittens the right to choose their own fate. Neither being a rampaging zombie or being pulled apart on a fundamental level seem great.
Sylvanas denied a lot of men and women their right to choose, says a lot about those who defend Sylvanas. It goes both ways, you’re not arguing in good faith at all. And this was after they both had their souls corrupted, so they’re on the same level.
And what of our favorite little blood elven prince who is also now stuck in Revendreth, possibly getting a shot at redemption? Its not a huge stretch to see the similarities between the two with Kael deciding on extreme ways to save his people while slowly being manipulated by a powerful third party Kil’jaeden. Hell, in some ways what Kael did was worse then Arthas and had we not stopped his plans, Azeroth would have been conquered by the Legion by now.
And such sins do not automatically condemn you to the Maw. All those sins could be attributed to Kael as well.
And yet Kael’thas gets a shot at redemption when he and Arthas were more alike then different? Either everyone gets a shots or I call this entire system for what it is, a failure that doesn’t represent justice at all.
As I recall, she chose a clean death and Arthas denied her choice - and that happened before she led the assault on Gilneas or the burning of Teldrassl.
Arthas would not give her the right to choose, which seems to be the under current his supports enjoy. While they ignore his choice to wield the sword.
Past trauma is not an excuse to cause further trauma to others.
And if you really wanted to go that route, then Arthas can be excused for the same reason since he was denied choices as well.
They’re both the exact same, you can’t condemn one and help redeem the other.
Kidding aside, we would have to see if Arthas has anything to say about it. Garrosh made it clear that he stands by his actions, regardless of any judge.
Is Arthas contrite? Is he mad that he didn’t kill us when he had the chance? That may be a consideration.
From Sylvanas herself she said no one actual has free will. So either Sylvanas is lying or a more nuance view of the entire exchange between her and Anduin is everyone on Azeroth has been forced to repeat a cycle and not actually have the freedom to truly choose their own paths because third parties(the Legion, Old Gods, Void Lords etc) keep messing with everyone.
You can. Although we normally call out said hypocrisy.
Firstly, almost no one in this thread is like, “Arthas. What a reasonable bloke.” The most that’s going on here is, “some of his intentions were good actually” with a few people.
Secondly, that’s a pretty serious thing to project onto people. And if thinking he maybe doesn’t deserve to be immediately dunked into Super Hell to be fundamentally undone in the most painful and violating way makes me an Arthas supporter… well, I guess I’ll wear the t-shirt but taking away anyone’s agency is not an undercurrent I enjoy.
And thirdly, yes, I know all too well that it’s pretty common for abuse victims to become abusers. That doesn’t make it any less expletive depressing and isn’t an excuse for abusing others.
Oh, I am not saying she is right. Far from it, however I am saying Sylvanas feels everything in Azeroth is unfair. If nothing is fair, who and why does anyone get to decide people’s fate? More importantly, if Sylvanas is a victim of this unfair system, then so is Arthas.
Of course, we can always chalk it up to Sylvanas to being a major hypocrite and another in the overflowing bucket of how she is manipulative and selfish and trying to justify her morally reprehensible actions will playing up the victim card.
I know this isn’t necessarily related to the topic, but a while ago I had written a poem about Arthas-Jaina and if anyone was interested in seeing my cringe writing I’d be happy to post it.
The moment she got her free will again she was not “compelled” to commit evil acts. Heck, even back in Tides of War she openly councilled AGAINST attacking Theramore/Teldrassill because she knew if those two fell her city would fall too.
Her actions in BfA are simply her finishing the job Garrosh started and no one should forget that irony.
