Being gullible and foolhardy doesn’t mean one is evil.
It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.
Again, Arthas was robbed of his agency. Sylvanas specifically reclaimed her agency and come out of that experience an evil, sadist, who finds enjoyment from hurting other people and using the Forsaken as tools for her own self serving goals.
Fixed it for ya
I mean, if you just want to ignore the facts, that is on you.
Thing is, this isn’t even your opinion. You have said, multiple times, that Sylvanas was evil and deserves punishment. Often mentioning Gilneas in the process.
You literally only started fan boying Sylvanas recently to match the energy of Sylvanas fans here in the forums, hyped over the idiotic RG Sylvanas reveal.
If you were a Pokemon, you’d be a Ditto.
It is my opinion. But thanks for trying to tell me what I think. Head pat Feel free to think otherwise though. Your opinion of me is really irrelevant.
As for gilneas, I also said I would like the worgen to beat up on the forsaken. But…you ignored that because its inconvient for ya
why? Because he accidently killed his horse?
According to people like you, you could destroy worlds upon worlds and get a free ticket to Revendreth but killing 1 horse unintentionally = eternal damnation.
From what I’m seeing, it’s just a double standard.
Sylvanas gets a pass (as in the narrative team and players allowing her to be restored and judged by the Arbiter) because she’s a woman.
Arthas, who is no different in terms of substance, isn’t granted the same liberty (some here are unironically okay with him being put in eternal damnation without being restored and judged properly) because he’s a man.
I am officially done with you on this.
You aren’t discussing your issue with good faith. You’re seeking to elevate Arthas at the expense of one of his most notable victims because you seem to feel that doing anything else would lessen her deserved punishment.
It has been abundantly clear that facts that don’t fit your narrative are simply ignored.
For this reason… I am done with you on the is thread.
Normally I would shoot down a post like this, but in this rare case, it’s the truth.
It goes a little bit deeper than superficial sex though. Sylvanas gets a pass because she was made into a SA Allegory, and for some reason, that makes her some kind of feminist icon in the eyes of her fans.
Her fans ignoring the fact that the people who placed that allegory upon her were men (with a bad reputation for SA in the workplace) who placed that upon her in a way to disempower her, so her free herself from the shackles of the Lich King is more high stakes. The problem is that its gratuitous, the thralldom of undeath is disempowering enough, and a bunch of men hanging out in the Cosby Suite making her a SA allegory is not just creepy, but it’s exploitive and sexist.
You seem to have it backwards…
Sylvanas is the one people are unjustly elevating while simultaneously unjustly lessening Arthas and inflating his punishment.
Sylvanas and Arthas should be placed on the same pedestal.
Those making it unequal are the ones not discussing in good faith.
To be fair the latest video is suggesting that she might have been mind controlled/influenced in some way shape or form in fairly significant way.
Nuslyvanas blue themed clone says ‘never in a thousand lifetimes would I betray everything I stood for’. Rather than seeing her future and going yep, given the circumstances, thats exactly what I would have done, she rejects it as a complete aberation of her allegedly true self.
Wait wot!
She effectively became the Lich king/queen during BFA in all but name. She took on the role the lich king should have had causing as much death on Azeroth as she thought she could accomplish.
I’m more concerned with where Kil’jaeden went.
Assumedly he didn’t go anywhere, he is gone gone due to dying in the Twisting Nether as a Demon.
Arthas deserves the maw multiple times. That is not up for debate. I hope he suffers well.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Have you given any thought to what this means, Sylvanas?
Garrosh Hellscream says: What difference is there between you and the Lich King now?
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Isn’t it obvious, Warchief? I serve the Horde.
She doesn’t even deny she is now Lich King 2.0.
As oppose to any of the other souls in Revendreth? Did they ever think about their crimes while they were alive/think they might be wrong committing those crimes?
Yeah, and that’s why he should also go to Revendreth to deal with that stuff, and then wherever things go from there, realistically long after we’re gone.
Contrary to what the extremes to which some of the posts in this thread have gone, by pointing out his misdeeds in life I’m not arguing that Arthas shouldn’t have a shot at redemption in the hereafter; I’m saying he has culpability for what he did pre-Frostmourne (and some of post-Frostmourne; not consistently doing what Zovaal wanted is why he considers Arthas and Ner’zhul failures, after all, so they retained enough of their own agency to have their own heinous plans for Azeroth that just didn’t involve immediately killing everyone.)
Said culpability means atonement in Revendreth. Same goes for Sylvanas. In their rush to use Zovaal as an excuse to write off all responsibility for their favored character, everyone’s arguing over which one was a hapless puppet who should get Revendreth and which was all-in on the bad and deserves the Maw, but even as undead neither of them was completely in control all the time or completely dominated all the time, and both of them did bad things in both contexts.
Contrary to what people still insist, the Maw’s not for people who did especially bad stuff. It’s for souls that either prove incapable of atoning or souls who would inherently pose a threat to the rest of the Shadowlands. It’s not the moral Hell in WarCraft made to torment sinners. It’s something more practical than that. It’s an isolated quarantine zone for locking away dangerous souls that would otherwise threaten the other realms of Death and their inhabitants.
I just feel like folks are erroneously treating such redemption as some form of “so we get a good Arthas/Sylvanas back!” Turning a comparison of their sins into a thinly veiled argument over which faction’s corrupted monster was worse and which faction should be rewarded for producing a less evil scumbag with a morally absolved and spit-shined replacement bearing the same name. It’s none of that. If handled reasonably neither of these characters really belongs back on Azeroth; their lives ended, and like everyone who dies properly they should both be facing the eternity of the hereafter, and whatever that entails in each of their respective cases. Maybe it means eventual redemption and reassignment to another afterlife after some hard-earned eons in Revendreth. Maybe it means that, followed by deciding to become venthyr and help other souls who are also burdened with such sins. Or maybe it means stubbornly refusing to accept their own responsibility for the duration and eventually ending up in the Maw.
Whichever way it goes, it shouldn’t manifest as “he/she pops up in some form during the final raid to help us, so all is forgiven and he/she gets to come home as a contrived poster-character for why our side’s villains are really redeemable paragons of heroism and the other faction creates monsters with no hope of redemption.”
Which is unfortunate, because that’s the very sort of moronic “resolution” I can imagine the current story attempting to pull off.
Well said.
I must say, the length some people in this thread are willing to go to defend why “character I like should go scot-free at all costs” and “character I don’t like deserves the Maw multiple times” has me worried.
You could argue if anyone deserves such a thing as eternal torment in the afterlife ( I personally think not ) but certainly not Sylvanas or Arthas.
They both did terrible things but as we know for Arthas- and now also for Sylvanas- most of them happened when they were under some kind of mind control.
Not a great story in my opinion, but I don’t make the rules. As things stand, I agree that hey should both go to Revendreth.
And:
In one post; LOL…
Throw the Godwin in with the lack of factual enhancement via quote and this thread is quite the troll-cycle.
It doesn’t take much scrolling to see that some here are victim blaming Arthas.
Is it really that difficult for people to just accept both are equal?
Sylvanas’ story is an SA allegory, while Arthas’ is not.