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Choices up to and including his arrival at Northrend… Absolutely and entirely his own. Manipulated externally by Mal’Ganis under orders of Ner’zhul but choices he made by his own agency.
At Northrend defies his father’s recall orders has mercenaries burn his ships to stand his men and then has his men kill said mercenaries… also totally his own choices.
Takes up Frostmourne after being advised by one of his own best friends not to do so… also his own choice.
Now after Frostmourne his orders are communicated to him from the Lich King… if he was a dominated meat puppet that would not be necessary, but let’s concede the fact that his actions are at least under orders so his agency is partial, but still extant.
His ongoing torture of Sylvannas after killing her…that’s one hundred percent the agency of Arthas… his gratiutious actions once her Rangers were defeated did not advance the Lich King’s agenda one iota in fact it was a distraction. So while the mission to the Sunwell was under orders his extra torture of Sylvannas after his victory… that’s one hundred percent a petulant prince acting out on someone who dared defy him.
Now skipping ahead to Frozen Throne
Arthas goes to Northrend being summoned by Ner’znul after Illidan’s assault on the Frozen Throne which weakened his powers and allowed Sylvannas to break free and reclaim her body. He battles Illidan and leaves the latter brokenon their battlefield. He ten takes up the Helm of Domination and at that point Ner’zhul and Arthas become cotennats in Arthas’ body.
To outward appearances, the Scourge ceases most outward activity save those directed by Kel’thuzad in Naxxramas until adventurers put the latter out of business.
During this time, the body of the Lich King has become encased in ice as it will not move for a period of 5 or so years. During this time Arthas and the Ner’znul contest for dominance over his soul. Arthas’s remaining Humanity becomes psychologically walled off from his core psyche.
Beginnign of the Wrath of the Lich King.
The body which as not stirred in 5 years ; Suddenly flaming eyes snap open the ice cracks and the Lich King walks again.
At this point, Artha has won his internal battle and both Ner’zhul and his remnant empathy have been purged from his soul.
Every action taken at this point is one hundred percent Arthas and one hundred percent his agency. That is who dies on top of the Frozen Throne at the end of that chapter. That is whom Uther throws into the maw. That is the being under judgment when and if they are brought to the Arbiter.
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It was hidden after the Exile of the Highbourne so that they would not be able to find their way back after Malfurion kicked them out.
At this point given everything that has happened, why should we take cdev at their word?
Blizzard doesn’t even keep what they brought a patch ago consistent (Stonewrights backstory) so why should we believe anything they say?
Hell Blizzard is actually saying that Arthas at least deserves a chance at redemption via Revendreth given how guilty Uther was which throwing his soul into the maw and all that. Honestly it is comical that people say he deserves nothing but the maw because he accidently killed his horse when he was a kid.
wat? Kids disobey authority figures all the time and this one has actual consequences. Oh but now that is evil beyond redemption. I guess with this logic any child that disobeyed their parents is as evil as the devil himself. Grow up seriously.
If anything, that accidental death is what triggered his undying sense of protection and willingness to do anything to achieve it. It was his actions that led to Invincible’s death. Now he has the power to save his kingdom from the scourge. He will not let his kingdom fall. Arthas was designed to be a twist on the King Arthur story after all. Right down to the “magical sword that can save the kingdom”.
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To hunt down and kill the demon that attacked his homeland.
Brilliant really. In one maneuver he secured the loyalty of his men and bolstered their moral. All necessary to bring Mal’ganis to justice.
Refusing advice isn’t evil.
No it’s not. At this point he had no agency. He was under the control of a Mournblade, an agent of the Jailer. Same as Anduin.
Arthas would never have agency again.
And all it took was treason, betrayal and condemning his army to die in Northrend with no way to get home, whether they won or not. Defying the will of his king and damning his own men not to bring Mal’ganis to justice, but to have his revenge.
Which Arthas incidentally said himself, before taking up Frostmourne. It wasn’t about justice, it wasn’t about protecting his people. It was about revenge against the demon who’d bested him and made him fail.
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Almost like that was the whole point of the scam Ner’zhul came up with…
shocker I know.
That’s not true… The clear way out was Victory. That is exactly what he told his men. People also forget that Muradin helped him destroy those ships as well.
It can be all of those things. They are not mutually exclusive from each other. Besides, you are speculating. Arthas never once verbalizes that it was about his ego. What he does say, multiple times…
“Spare me Muradin, you weren’t there to see what Mal’ganis did to my homeland.”
“I will give any thing, or pay any price, if only you help me save my people.”
“Flee? My place is here, and my only course is to defend my people.”
We have zero indication that this was a crusade to save his ego, but we have every indication that what he was doing, he believed it was the best way to save his homeland and his people…
Even after multiple people with more combat experience and general life experience told him NO and what he was doing was wrong. His ego was bruised and he hated being told no.
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They were wrong. You don’t leave an enemy behind you. You don’t give them time to regroup and gather strength to attack again.
That just puts your people in danger. Eliminate the threat. And even if the entire world is telling you to do something, that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.
So some guy named Victory would build new boats in the frozen north to get them all home? Was Arthas walking around with a fully staffed shipyard in his pocket?
Funny how you conveniently omit his “Damn the men!” The men he betrayed and stranded in Northrend with no way home. He didn’t really care about them. By that point they were a means to an end and disposable. And that end was just revenge. He was willing to get them all killed to know he’d beaten Mal’ganis.
You also ignored that what he did was treason, and he did betray the mercenaries he’d hired. But I suppose you apply no moral culpability to doing horrible things to people of “the wrong races” for the sake of convenience.
Did you even read Arthas? You seem hellbent on convincing me that you either skipped the parts you didn’t like or are just parsing bits and pieces of it from the citations on Wowpedia.
Which would have still failed if Ner’zhul and Mal’ganis were actually trying and not drawing him in. Meanwhile had he rallied the Alliance armies in Lordaeron, there would be no collapse of the capital from within, no dropping of everyone’s guard at home in the false belief that the threat was gone. They’d have at the very least been entrenched and poised to respond to the Scourge returning. And had that eventually failed, a protracted defense would have provided time for a more organized evacuation than was possible with the whole country’s infrastructure falling apart overnight with the capital city’s spontaneous fall.
You’re conveniently ignoring the fact that they were right because Arthas only got as far as he did by virtue of his enemies letting him get that far when they could have squashed him like a bug as soon as he got to Northrend. Arthas was dead wrong, but he was convinced that Mal’ganis was actually trying to kill him, and that he was winning in spite of it. Yet the dreadlord wasn’t actually trying to win or kill him. Mal’ganis was stringing him along, putting up just enough of a fight to convince Arthas that he would stand a chance in the Scourge’s own lands if he took up Frostmourne.
For your position to add up, Arthas would have to have been able to win in Northrend. He couldn’t. Going there was a terrible idea. Staying there against orders was a continuation and worsening of that same terrible idea. By staying in Northrend under the delusion that he could succeed there he was delivering himself and his soldiers into the Scourge’s hands, whether by way of his fall to corruption or, had that failed, the undead crushing them with insurmountable numbers in the seat of the Lich King’s power.
None of the Arthas stuff was integral to the Legion’s plans for the Scourge. The dreadlords wouldn’t have allowed Ner’zhul to hinge the entire operation’s success on capturing his chosen puppet, with only enough undead in Northrend to trick Arthas, but not enough to mop things up if that didn’t pan out. The Scourge would have had more than enough forces available in Northrend to steamroll Arthas in the event that the whole corruption gambit fell flat. So literally everything about him being in Northrend at all was him stupidly falling for Ner’zhul’s plan, and every decision Arthas made to continue enabling said plan was idiotic at its face, because he had no reason to ever, at any time think he actually had the Scourge on the ropes and that they would run out of soldiers before he did.
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Ras I loved your post. Was going to say the same thing, but you did it better. 
Also to add on:
It’s not wise to ignore actually good advice. Like your friend telling you the blatantly evil sword is going to be a bad idea to pick up. The inscription written on the sword’s dais even told Arthas “Hey be really sure about this. This thing is cursed.” And still he ignored it. The “I’ll pay any price” line he said is him again being blinded by anger and not thinking rationally.
But Arthas was not mind controlled in the way Anduin was. Different mourneblades were made for different things. We saw Arthas openly questioning the Lich King and thinking for himself even while doing his death knight life holding Frostmourne. Just as Ner’zhul was acting of his own accord too in the years building up the Scourge.
If both were like Anduin, enslaved to Zovaal’s will, then there’d be no issue of debate. They’d just mindlessly be puppets and do what they were told. Undoubtedly the Helm and Frostmourne were very negative influences, but there’s still no evidence of true mind control happening. Zovaal even called both of them failures who defied him.
The Lich King was even hostile to the dreadlords and schemed around to betray them, who were on Zovaal’s side. So that’s also further proof Ner’zhul and Arthas were behind the wheels, not Zovaal.
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Sylvanas wasn’t being “true mind controlled” by Zovaal either, and she’s getting restored and judged and being given a hand wave by people in this thread.
Both are equally victims that were chosen by fate and thrown unavoidable unfortunate circumstances, yet some here are blaming Arthas while forgiving Sylvanas.
The fact of the matter is, Arthas deserves the same opportunities that Sylvanas is getting.
He really doesn’t. And I’ll just leave it at that.
Then Sylvanas shouldn’t be getting anything, simple as that.
And you’re entitled to that opinion
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Similar circumstances doesn’t mean the characters have to have the same stories. They’re separate people. For Arthas his was the hero turned villain. It’s ok to leave it at that. Redeeming him would be bad for his character.
Sylvanas led a very different life, she never became the Lich King. Her story and character/personality have been wildly different from what Arthas experienced so it can go in another direction.
No, they would win, and then the people who were comming to save muradin would pick them up… Remember that Muradin was already there, and he was expecting a rescue. Arthas did come back, didn’t he? So “no way home” isn’t the case.
They had a way home, but it involved defeating Mal’ganis too.
So you have one quote he said in anger, vs several quotes that prove otherwise.
He said “Damn the men” and then immediately followed up with a promise of selfless sacrifice to save his people.
Again, just because someone tells you to do something doesn’t mean it was the right thing to do.
That doesn’t mean he didn’t believe he was saving his people with his actions. We all know what happened to Arthas, the question is, was he evil for it? I choose not to victim blame someone who was manipulated into action, believing he was doing the right thing.
Technically, he did win in Northrend. He just didn’t understand the consequences of picking up a Mournblade… Which is totally fair, the inscription was vague, and he was far enough from his homeland that it is reasonable for him to think the consequences of picking up a cursed blade wouldn’t impact the people he was trying to protect.
Yeah, but discerning the good advice from the bad is not so simple. It is better to trust yourself and your own abilities. Frankly, I don’t think Arthas was wrong in any of the choices he made. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but you have to consider the information that was available to him.
“Forget this business and lead your men home.”
And if Mal’ganis returned to Lordaeron with a greater army, or with another plot to infect the people of Lordaeron, Arthas would only have himself to blame for not ending the threat when he had the chance. We only know that the advice given to him was good advice because we have knowledge of the future.
And we see Anduin doing much the same when he attacked the Archon. We have more reason to believe their situations are similar rather than not.
Sylvanas is worse than Arthas.
Something to also remember is that he wasn’t just rejecting the words of his allies. He was doing so while also effectively doing whatever Mal’ganis told him to do. The dreadlord said “Neener, neener, come get me in Northrend” and that framed Arthas’ entire mindset going forward. Then once there, every time Mal’ganis taunted him his response was “Oh yeah? Well I’m still coming to get you, just like you said!”
Arthas never once stopped to think “Wait, is it really a good idea to chase Mal’ganis up to Northrend when the only person who’s told me I should chase Mal’ganis up to Northrend is Mal’ganis himself?”
Because he heard what he wanted to hear, and nothing else. Anything that reinforced his desire for revenge, he accepted without question; anything to the contrary, he disregarded out of hand.
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That’s like…just your opinion man.
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