It was, the Arthas book specifically covers what he did to her and how it was different to the others that were raised.
It’s not “headcanon” at all, it’s the lore.
Sure it doesn’t excuse her of her sins, abuse is never an excuse for becoming an abuser.
But it’s an explanation as to why and I think it’s odd not to feel a bit of sympathy for her.
Just like I’d feel sympathy for a person who was abused as a child and turned into a violent adult as a result. Does the prior abuse justify the actions later? No, but it also feels callous to place the blame squarely on the abuse victim turned abuser.
“You just shouldn’t have been abused” or “you should have just got over your abuse you piece of garbage” seem like pretty heartless mentalities.
Imagine if some homeless man somehow managed to hijack Biden’s microphone during a press conference, and said the only way Americans could survived is if everyone packed up and moved to New Guinea… Like that dude would just become a meme on the internet and everyone would go back to minding their own business.
Adolf H had an abusive father.
Do you feel bad? I don’t. Maybe that is callous but there are plenty of people who have trauma and still choose to end that cycle of abuse. And they have a responsibility to do that. Sylvanas failed that responsibility, and with that failure, any sympathy I might of had is gone.
Yeah, in all fairness Medivh’s whole presentation and sales pitch really sucked.
Though also in fairness, the guy spent his whole life as a cloistered weirdo with underdeveloped social skills and a fallen titan rattling around in his head, so it’s not exactly surprising.
Spouting your head canon repeatedly won’t make the real lore go away.
Arthas chose to wield Frostmourne of his own free will. He was already evil - and his evilness is why he ignored all warnings and chose to wield it.
As for Sylvanas, she asked for a quick death - and Arthas chose to violate her because she vexed him.
The recent data mined cinematic made it clear that Sylvanas was wounded more grievously than Uther, and he can acknowledge it. So not all victims of Arthas are the same. That dispels one of your head canon arguments.
That cinematic also shows that she lost a portion of her psyche, and did not have completely free will after Arthas violated her.
Basically, you have it backwards. Arthas had free will when he chose to wield Frostmourne. Sylvanas did not choose to be violated- she asked for a clean death.
Again in fairness, that stuff works with shamans, since they’re used to things like mysterious, potentially ethereal beings appearing in their dreams to make high-handed proclamations about fate and destiny.
Kings and archmages and angry princes in the middle of poorly managing a crisis, though? Not so much.
Honestly I’ve always been slightly annoyed that we never actually got to see what he said to Jaina that convinced her. He just approached and addressed her, then it faded to black. I’ve long wondered, did he just repeat his doomsday spiel and her magic “sense” that he wasn’t just a crazy hobo swayed her choice, or did he finally take a few minutes to frame it cogently and with enough specifics to legitimately convince her that leaving was a good idea?
Well, to be fair, it was the subject of the thread. We are sort of spitballing here.
And in a Universe where Pelagos can be the Arbiter of souls because… lord knows why… it makes playing Arbiter less far fetched. Some of us are soul bound with him, or something.
With no way of knowing he consequences. All he know was that it was powerful and undead was trying to prevent him for getting it.
Negligent? Maybe. Evil? No.
It’s an undead army… this was just a stupid thing to ask for.
At this time Arthas was still under the domination effects of Forstmourn.
I mean… eyeroll worthy throw away dialogue in a trash expansion with a trash story. It doesn’t change the fact that Sylvanas still did what she did of her own free will, and her crimes are far more evil and Arthas ever were.
If you want to use that excuse for her, you have to use it for Arthas as well.
Arthas was no longer Arthas after he picked up Frostmourn. A failure to heed warnings doesnt make someone evil, that just doesnt make any sense.
Arthas did not choose to continue to wield it. The actions he took while wielding it were not his own. The actions Sylvanas took after she was raised where her own.
More nonsense from you. There is no comparison. I already explained it. The lore makes it clear.
Arthas was evil before he chose to wield Frostmourne. He willingly chose to wield it.
Sylvanas did not willing choose to be violated by Arthas. If she had her choice, she would have had a clean death.
Arthas chose. Sylvanas did not.
He willingly picked it up. It is that simple.
Arthas chose to be evil and do evil things. Sylvanas only did evil things after Arthas violated her in ways even Uther acknowledges as powerful and destructive beyond what he dealt with.
You can make the case that Arthas only did evil things after Kel’thuzad and Mal’ganis began to violate his people and homeland. And of course, after Frostmourne violated his soul.
Its the lore that he said it, the meaning behind it, and the weight of his words remain undefined.
And I am less brain cells for reading your explanation. thanks.
No he wasn’t. Choosing to pick up a magical weapon with an ambiguous inscription doesnt make you evil.
But she did choose to enslave and torture people. She did choose to blight civilian populations with chemical weapons. She did choose to burn children alive in their homes.
Those were her choices.
So what? He wanted to use it to save his Kingdom, not to destroy it.
Yes he was Arthas. Like everyone else in life he underwent a change. Like everyone else he can be judged for the choices and actions he made. This is just as true for him as it is for Sylvannas, Medivh, Aegwynn, Garoosh, Thrall, the whole lot.
People undergo changes. Many of them are not for the better.
No, he wasn’t. The true Arthas was trying to resist the command of the Lich King. We see him in the Novel. We also see him ask his father “Is it over?” which implies that he was not in control of what he was doing before Frostmourn broke.
And in Shadowlands, we can see how Mournblades force one to act outside their character, like the case with Anduin.
Like, if Arthas was evil from the very start… then what was Frostmourns curse? What did it even do if it didn’t force his hand into committing horrible acts? What was the point of it?
We already have sources that state Lich King Arthas was corrupted and changed, and those are what caused him to commit what he did. Calia even tells us that Zovaal manipulated him.
No…that request doesn’t imply anything of the sort. It was a broken boy asking his father if his terror was over… because he was already beholding what only his own eyes would see, very much aware that his reign was over… and punishment was in the wings.
Every incarnation of Arthas is the “true” Arthas. The Lich King wasn’t Fake Arthas, he was a true incarnation like I said… people change. and that was one of them.
Actually what we know from the Novel was that that struggle had been concluded and that Arthas had eliminated both Ner’zhul and the remnants of his humanity the moment he opened his eyes at the beginning of the Wrath cinematic. From that moment on… there was no division in his actions. He was all of one mind at that point.
