oh, he can be judged, but most of us here think that he should rightfully stay in the Maw.
He can be the new Jailer. That would be a fitting end to his journey of self-sacrifice.
1 Like
And that supposed “most” would be wrong. There is no “rightfully stay in the maw” because it wasn’t what the Arbiter chose. Being denied judgement isn’t fair/just/right no matter how you spin it.
It’d be like claiming certain characters that did get judged should “rightfully have been sent to the maw instead”.
And clearly that argument isn’t used anywhere or if it is it’s denied validity.
I could accept Arthas choosing to stay in the Maw and do one real heroic thing by taking on the role of the jailer, or he can get turned to dust like Ner’zul, he’s insignificant, a long dead Warcraft relic that needs to be put to rest.
1 Like
No he wasn’t. He was trying to save his Kingdom.
That is the same as everyone else. We have several examples of Forsaken who remember what they did while part of the Scourge. Hell, Dark Mirrior, we get a retelling of Nathanos’ experience shortly before he broke free.
She is not unique.
Yeah, yeah.
“Sylvanas is so damaged. So edgy, so cool.”
Gods give me a vomit bucket.
And the only thing I would accept would either him being brought before the arbiter which is a right all souls brought to the Shadowlands are entitled to (being sent to Revendreth or ideally Bastion to be with Uther), or to willingly become the new Jailer of the Maw and play the role as it should have been which is to guard the prison and keep the worst of the worst from breaking free.
Just like you?
1 Like
Yeah, I’m a bad B, thanks.
Is this you finally working up the courage to tell me I am your fav?
Oh cool so we agree Sylvanas is a badass. cool cool.
3 Likes
I mean, you can be a badass and an irredeemable POS.
And don’t even get me started on Garrosh. Him going to Revendreth and what ultimately happened to him, knowing what we know about souls and how they work with duplicates, throws sense out the window. One bad Garrosh shouldn’t override the supposed infinite other versions that were good Garrosh’s.
3 Likes
That’s more like you.
1 Like
That Garrosh scene is literally the only cool thing that happened in Shadowlands imo.
Awww, you think I’m a badass?
2 Likes
The lore of this expansion is the worst I’ve ever seen, and it’s incredibly depressing. So many wrong moves and missed opportunities by the narrative team.
1 Like
Actually, she is. Arthas takes particular attention to detail with Sylvanas. Uther recognizes that. And the narrative has explained it many times.
Arthas did not just raise her like every other undead he raised. He paid particular if not singular attention to violating her.
6 Likes
You’re reading to much into it, bud. Nothing about her experience note anything more than what other Forsaken had to deal with. -if- Arthas gave her any special attention, it was likely because he was being directed by Zooval, grooming her to one day take Arthas’ place… Which she did.
Of her own free will, I might add.
1 Like
Going by how wrong you are, your standard of “reading too much” seems to be reading a single word of the actual lore. Because it has been stated many times that her experience was quite unique, and Arthas paid attention to her violation because - by his words - she vexed him.
8 Likes
Something people seem to ignore is that despite all the fancy Dracula fantasy trappings we get to enjoy, Revendreth isn’t some nice place for the souls sent there. The venthyr are, for all intents and purposes, torturing those souls while extracting their anima and subjecting them them to the misdeeds attached to it.
So…it’s kinda narcissistic to think oneself here an arbiter of justice who’s determined that eternity in the Maw with no proper assessment and judgment is for Arthas or Sylvanas rather than eons of torment and suffering in Revendreth with a chance of coming out contrite and redeemed. Are the posters here God? How can you quantify that eternity in the Maw is proper instead of a few million/billion/etc. years of suffering before getting sent there anyway if the atonement doesn’t take before their anima runs out?
Redemption in fiction gets treated as this shallow means of making a bad guy good, but redemption through Revendreth isn’t this free pass to forget your sins and live on without consequence. It’s the opposite. It’s being subjected to your sins. Having to suffer what your victims suffered and face the reasons why it was wrong. It’s maybe coming out the other side having accepted how wrong you were and maybe getting to go somewhere better. Maybe staying in Revendreth with that realization as a venthyr, with those same sins hanging around you neck forever as a vulnerability to be forever held against you if your redemption slips. Or if all that failed, getting your depleted soul tossed into the Maw for lack of any more anima generated from your sins that can be used to keep trying to fix you.
None of those Garroshes exist. None of those timelines happened. Only this one did.
There are an infinite number of possibilities that could have happened, but only one actuality that did happen. From the moment our Garrosh went bad, that was what actually occurred, and every branching timeline subsequent to it was derived from our Garrosh, while every previously branched timeline were Garroshes that didn’t happen, and so ceased to exist along with their timelines.
7 Likes
That is different.
Undead, like the Forsaken that were ex-Scourge, recalled what they did after being released from the LK’s control. At that point they had a ton of bad memories.
In the case of Sylvanas, she was actively experiencing the atrocities she was committing while she was committing them.
That is a pretty drastic difference in experience, and what the average undead suffered was bad enough.
It hasn’t been. Like… at all.
That is headcanon. No where in the lore has that difference been expressly defined.
And so we stay on topic, even if this were true, Arthas did so while under the dominating effects of his Mournblade. Sylvanas, despite having trauma, still performed her atrocities of her own free will.
Trauma is not a get out of jail free card. You can have trauma and still be a garbage person.
Medivh’s warning was that Lordaeron was already doomed and the only hope was to flee over sea.
1 Like