It’s fairly evident with them throwing insults that they’ve lost the argument and now realize they’ve got nothing left.
I mean literally, the soon-to-be Arbiter even said Arthas deserved a chance.
This debate was pointless from the start because the argument against him being judged is factually null and void.
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A Mourneblade he willing grabbed and wielded. He made that choice.
Actually ALL of that happened after Arthas used his blade against her, and after Arthas did things to her soul that he didn’t do to anyone else - even Uther acknowledges that much.
After he willing wielded the blade, yes.
Sylvanas didn’t willingly torture herself with Arthas… she wanted a clean death.
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So you admit there was a part of Arthas that was good…
He picked up a magical weapon, which is something we do in WoW all the time. We can say he is negligent. But he is not evil… he thought that power would save his Kingdom, and the consequences would be his alone.
But she still had freewill, Arthas did not.
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Somewhat, apparently her goal was to “remake” the wheel of death so as to give everybody freedom from the current system. So her goal was apparently a somewhat noble one, although her primary focus was likely rescuing herself with the rest of the universe just benefitting as a side effect.
Then once Zovaal had what he needed he revealed his “true” plan, which was to recreate the system to serve him. At which point Sylvanas was like “I don’t serve”.
It’s all nonsense, but Blizz have tried to justify her actions.
Arthas’ actions were not forced. We’ve been told that Zovaal did not have the same domination over Arthas and instead played more a roll of “guiding” Arthas down the desired path. It seems that a lot of the choices Arthas made were largely his own.
Which once again seems like nonsense as the whole deal was that his was the first soul that Frostmourne claimed.
Like I said, very little post BfA makes sense. That includes this Arthas stuff.
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If you think Arthas deserves the Maw, then you should have absolutely zero objection on him getting rightfully judged by the Arbiter.
Because if you truly believe his soul is destined for the Maw, than you shouldn’t even have to worry about what the Arbiter did because if you were right then he’d just be sent to the Maw anyways.
Of course, you don’t want this because you know him going to the Maw is unjust and incorrect.
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And its all nonsense.
The very fact that he had a good side of him actively fighting back against the Lich King persona. The fact that, when Frostmourn was broken, his eyes clarified and he said “Is it over?” suggests that is not true.
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If Arthas deserves the Maw, so does Sylvanas.
But I disagree… Sylvanas deserves a beheading by Tyrande
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Which…ironically is the same moment Uther and Devos were in the process of yeeting him into the Maw. That line takes on a whole different meaning now.
No it’s not. He was still talking to the ghost of his father.
You are referring to what he said next.
“I see only darkness before me.”
Nice to see that the story forums are having a polite and reasonable discussion as always.
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Sure he is. He was explicitly warned the whole way. There were signs. And Muradin told him not to - the Dwarf who had trained him as a wee lad.
I mean, if you want to compare us Murderhobos equipping weapons… that is similar to Corruptions during Nyalotha. I always felt they were a bane on healers, because DPS would just ignore corruptions, and resistances, and mechanics, and blame the healer. But there weren’t many Courrptions that boosted heals other than the flat stat boosts. Which weren’t as fun as Infinite Stars or that Meme beam.
Negligence is one thing. What Arthas has is a callous disregard that stems from vanity and evil.
Arthas had complete freewill when he chose to wield Frostmourne. After Arthas violated Sylvanas, she was not her self - not completely. Due to Arthas, as a matter of fact.
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Negligence isn’t evil.
The curse is ambiguous. “Such power scars the spirit”
That can be interpreted a number of different ways, and there is no reason to believe it would have the effect it would had. Not to mention all the entities trying to prevent him from finding the sword were undead… The enemy he planned to destroy with it.
And Frostmourne changed him. He was not himself - not completely.
They are mirror characters, Arthas was just better written.
Muradin told him not to. Muradin might have many cool attributes, but he isn’t Undead. And he wasn’t Undead back then.
Arthas was beyond negligent. He had a callous disregard for everything except his desires.
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No, Muradin helped him kill all the undead who were trying to stop them.
Yes, Muradin told him not to wield the blade. And Arthas did it anyway.
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So… Not doing what Muradin says makes you evil? lol
And yet it’s the narrative we’re being given, for some reason. It seems that in the case of Anduin Zovaal exerted control; whereas Arthas has been framed as more akin to Uther, where the manipulation by Zovaal was an emotional one and Arthas made his own choices based on that emotional manipulation. Just as Uther did in the Shadowlands.
I agree that it doesn’t make sense. Just like I don’t think much of this current storyline makes sense.
We specifically see what happens to Sylvanas after her death at ICC in the EoN book. Yet now we’re being told “the Jailer actually started to manipulate her there” despite there being no indication of said manipulation in the original material. In fact, the actions of Sylvanas afterwards with the Val’kyr and Eyir make sense in the context of what we were given in EoN and make almost no sense in the context of the retconned Jailer plan.
Similarly, we were shown and told that Arthas had lost his soul to Frostmourne and we see the good in him. Yet now it was choices he made all along? It makes no sense.
I just do not understand how a team of writers feel that any of this makes any sense.
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I guess we are supposed to just forget all the evil things Garrosh did but while he is allowed judgement and granted a chance at redemption, Arthas is somehow not allowed that same rightful opportunity?
There’s really no logical argument to be made in favor of denying Arthas a souls fundamental right to be judged by the Arbiter.
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You mentioned the Undead were the entities who tried to stop him from finding it. But after it was found, Muradin spoke against it. So it isn’t just evil Undead forces who Arthas should have considered and quickly ignored.
He did not heed the dwarf who trained him, and who had advised his family. He was evil before he ignored Muradin.
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Except he didn’t. He raised her and made her retain her mind while enslaving her body. Which means the mind of the Ranger General was trapped inside a banshee, being forced to murder her own people. That’s deep psychological trauma. The current narrative even acknowledges that trauma, it was the root cause of why she was the way that she was in undeath.
Uther even says that her wound from Arthas was worse than his. You’d have to win the mental gymnastics Olympics to throw out current content canon in favour of your Arthas headcanon.
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