Does anyone believe the TBCC team (if there is one) is looking at BG data?

They most likely are, but I don’t think they look at it in context of the rest of the game, and I don’t think they look at factions - just players as a whole. This causes issues when talking about the, “majority” - as that’s already Horde.

Cater to horde.

Yes the multibillion dollar company with likely a team of people looking at BG data you dont have access to. Who dont give a damn about factions are fixing a problem that is literally costing them money. They are fixing Qs, not a faction you crybabies.

This has to do with players quitting due to Q times, not some perceived faction bias lol.

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Why? You read the statements made by kaivax, that pvp world kills were roughly 50/50 before and during the test.

Are you saying that’s wrong? It doesn’t take into account server by server statistics but that’s not the point they’re trying to make.

The issue is that the queue times are what they are now because of faction imbalance. If they addressed the underlying issue, it would have prevented the current one.


I’m more talking about the participation, how many Alliance BGs were played vs. Horde BGs, and the underlying problem getting worse due to this change.

As others have said, how can they know the true winrate when these are same faction BGs, and there would likely have been many HvH BGs?


The problem they set out to fix was Horde queue times. You’re wanting them to focus on other problems, not other solutions.

Because they specifically spoke to this part in the blue post.

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I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that the company that created this game can gather data like that. You think they get their data from

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True, and I’m not against that, but we don’t really know what the outcome would have been. This is far more straightforward from their point of view I would assume.

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If an underlying problem creates another problem, simply treating the caused problem doesn’t fix the underlying issue - and it will likely cause more problems.

It’s like treating for symptoms rather than condition.

It’s just ridiculous they go this far instead of trying literally anything else, and have said nothing about the underlying problem - like they don’t even recognize it’s a thing.

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They have the data, and I am sure they reviewed it. But I do think that they had already made their decision about this. Otherwise, why did they even go through the trouble of developing a new queuing system ahead of time?

They knew exactly what they were going to do, weeks ago, all this “reviewing the data” was just them looking to confirm it did what they wanted.

#WorldofHordecraft. Why fight it, I already started leveling my Horde characters for when the system goes full time. I want to be ready to jump right in.


Well because the #somechanges isnt going to step into the realm of trying to balance racials.

The underlying problem is the original game itself, which I would rather they leave alone as much as possible with maybe a few QoL changes. Not balancing.

The underlying problem is close to a decade of player perceptions and lemmings playing follow the leader. They wanted a fix that could help this decade, without forcing players onto servers or factions they didn’t want to play on.

Personally would have preferred they went with changing up racials + faction changes and maybe even incentives for Alliance to queue, but I recognize all of those also would’ve still set the forums on fire and wouldn’t have led to anywhere near the amount of BG participation same faction did.

Hoping that once they do go through with this completely, there’s at least a minimum amount of time before same faction queue kicks in.

I’m also hoping they finally give us some actual numbers regarding faction/server balance, but that’s just another pipe dream.

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The racials are already largely balanced in TBCC. That wouldn’t solve anything. In Wrath, EMfH becomes ridiculously strong in ICC, so we may see some very late-Wrath Classic Alliance dominance - but it won’t do much for population outside of it, if it even does at all.

I’d prefer they leave it alone too, but we have TBCC already. And this BG change is a massive one.


They said win rates between alliance and horde were 50/50 also.

Less alliance pvp than horde as always, and therefore participation is never going to be truly equal.

I think I understand what you’re getting at but that’s not the problem they’re trying to solve, it was purely just horde queue times and while the underlying problem is still there, at least most of their paying customers aren’t going to up and leave in the short term.

Do I think they could do more to entice alliance players into queuing? Sure. Most of the solutions to that on the forums are way imba alliance favored and would never happen though.

I’ve seen someone talk about giving alliance gold for queuing which seems interesting as it would help alliance save for epic flight, get more gold into alliance economies, and lower queue times for horde as more alliance queue.

All the things alliance said would be destroyed by this change. Me personally, I think horde queue times were lessened even without reimplementation of the change (from an hour or more during peak to maybe half that now) and could live with this being an intermittent thing when it gets unbearable.

I’ll agree with the lemmings comment, as that’s largely the cause of the huge population shift. But balancing the racials, or doing any number of things over a year ago would have been the best way to address it. If they weren’t going to go no changes in TBCC - and they had to have known long beforehand - they shouldn’t have tried to do the same in Classic.

Taking steps B and C when trying to fix a problem would be better than going straight to Z.

Pretty much. Testing the system is understandable, but there should be a period where they still try and match AvH. And yeah - we’ll never see the data nor numbers. They don’t announce live numbers for a reason.

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Yeah I’m hella skeptical too they simply shouldn’t be trusted.

If we are talking PvP it will have a large impact. Thing is most players PvE and aren’t rerolling for a PvP racial anytime soon.

If you go look at he warmane WotLK arena ladders you will see a VERY similar picture with human to what we see with undead right now.

I’m obviously going to be bias because I have been enduring BG Qs for the last month, and if I hadn’t capped honor in the prepatch (didnt catch the 1st night >.<) I would REALLY be struggling for gear right now and I can see why this is being addressed.

Is it the right one? /shrug

Do they care about it… This is another question. Who knows what the Marketing team overlord thinks. THey sure dont see us as human being

Right, but that’s starting in Wrath without any Classic/TBC character investment. It will likely be different.

And, as I said, will probably be nerfed.

Percentages would work while still protecting their precious subscriber numbers. That’s all I want. Just an overall percentage, a percentage on the Server Selection screen, and some indication of percentage of Horde queueing vs Alliance queueing.

Ironforge pro being the best we have, when there were multiple census addons that Blizz just broke, is something I don’t like having to lean on. And drustvar might be even worse.