Uhhhh?
Every raider had CT Raid Assist my guy, maybe you should try raiding at a relevant level before making one of these threads lmao
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I don’t think I ever have used DBM or bigwigs
Granted it would make fights easier I’ve done heroic raid content in the past 2 xpacs and I’ve never felt like not having those add ons have crippled me
However a few mechanics that pop up seem to be slightly wild but it’s nothing we haven’t dealt with before
Raids are normally pretty organised and most the abilities you have to watch out for have huge animations
Being able to know fight mechanics before ever setting foot in the instance isnt the fault of DBM or addons, thats just the internet.
I don’t really see that at all. Look at it this way, I go to class, the professor tells us what something is and how it works, then he shows us the process, then he gives us specific cases. After we’ve reviewed these things a few times, he gives us an assessment.
In the same way, watching the fatboss guides is them telling how the mechanics works, then they show you the process of doing the mechanics, after which, you go to the raid for your assessment.
I’m kind of lost on where the disconnect for this metaphor is
I think you could make an equal argument for that process being your leveling up and learning your class through dungeons and other group content, then the raid is your assessment for how well you can play that class when faced with new mechanics.
I want to be clear here though, because from where I’m sitting, we’re bantering about two different viewpoints. I am not looking to convert anyone away from using addons; I definitely run them myself. It’s just, I can also agree that I kind of miss going in blind with a solid group of people who know what they’re doing and want to try things blind.
It’s hard to find 25 people who all want to do that at the same time/day you do, so I don’t bother. But I can agree with the sentiment is all. 
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The fight could be well designed and still require DBM
How do you see a well designed fight requiring a 3rd party addon? That makes absolutely no sense. If the encounter is good, you can tell what is going on by using the tools within the game that you are playing… Requiring DBM is a sign of laziness and poor design more than anything.
And the majority still fails at those in FF14. Hard. I kid you not, I found N’Zoth wipes to be far less frustrating after being subject to the cavalcade of failures that is the alliance raid roulette over there, where apparently expecting even basic math skills is expecting too much (how does one not know what a prime number is?!). That and their general creepiness is what brought me back here.
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I have a love hate relationship with addons. On one hand I just want a vanilla game where everyone has the same baseline without effort outside of the game. On the other, I don’t think Blizz would do nearly the amount of improvements they’ve done to the UI if it weren’t for addons. The UI is still laughed at by a lot of people, but it’s so much better than what it was.
As far as DBM… I wouldn’t mind if it was just delayed a few weeks with each release or something. Don’t touch my GTFO though LOL
Can we get more people who don’t have any mythic raiding experience weighing in on how they easily do normal without DBM?
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That’s right slap that gate down. No one can have an opinion on the game if they don’t mythic raid.
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That’s a valid way of seeing it
I think it’s more accurate to put ‘require’ in quotes. It’s not literally required, but required in the sense that you’d be at a significant disadvantage by not having it. And I think there are well designed fights like that, ones that also have, as you say, clarity of mechanics where you can tell what is going on by using the tools within the game.
A good example is my favorite fight, Argus the Unmaker. I could do that fight without DBM because all of the mechanics, provided you know that they exist and what they do, are clear and telegraphed. Would I want DBM though? Yeah, I feel like it would be a ‘requirement’ for me because I value having as much clarity as possible, even if the clarity is extraneous.
If anything, I’d argue that in response to DBM, Blizzard has gotten much better in telegraphing mechanics so that it isn’t 100% needed. At least at the current Heroic level.
Mythic now… that’s another kettle of fish and arguably where the true raiding end-game lies. (with variance for gearing over time)
So yes, I like DBM and I like how WoW raiding is currently, especially in comparison to FF.
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And that’s different from now… How?
Indeed
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Lol. This.
People who have no experience in non trivial content expounding how timers aren’t necessary makes me laugh.
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Not quite sure the gate keeping is as necessary in this case though. I’m not entirely sure that Blizzard is too concerned about what’s absurd in Mythic raiding, as that’s a percentage of a percentage of the player base. In fact, I feel like there could be a case made that heroic level of raiding is probably Blizzard’s target difficulty, ironically. I may be wrong tho
It’s all trivial. It’s a video game. You’re not a better player with a better opinion. You’re just a player.
While rude, this is a good point. Especially because I was definitely talking about Mythic raids when I was talking about the requirement of DBM in general.
Dbm is just a timer, the actual raiding addons are weak auras and to a lesser extent exorsus.
Some of the stuff that those addons were capable of have made then straight up change the game, because of how broken they got.
Complaining about dbm at all is something I would expect from someone that hasn’t raider at all since wrath/cata.
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You know… That’s a fair point. Didn’t they recently make a change to where DBM couldn’t place markers on the ground? or am I high? I might be high, I also might be thinking of FF. I don’t like the idea of DBM or other addons placing markers on peoples heads or markers on the ground. I think if anything that’s what I’m trying to point out. If it’s done by a program and not done by a person clicking a button, even if that button is a macro. It shouldn’t be allowed.
Having DBM doesn’t magically trivialise content
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