Nope, I also don’t like addons in general and I don’t like the raid journal explaining all of the mechanics.
But I like doing things blind and piecing together the puzzle. But WoW won’t ever be that kind of game again.
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I’m not sure I necessarily dislike DBM altogether, but I do agree on what others have said about ~missing the mystery. I briefly played ESO on console and man, doing the endgame content with literally no addons really did bring back the spirit of vanilla raiding just a little. Having actual callouts, paying attention to timers and visual cues, maintaining positioning on your own without something to honk at you when you got too close to another player … It was fun.
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Haven’t used either since cata. I just dont stand in crap and read the fights ahead of time if I’m raiding
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Find some friends who agree and you can play it exactly how you want.
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I like what addons have done to the game even the ones you have mentioned.
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But what about the venomhide ravesuar? I did both, and they both sucked so much, in the best way
DBM wouldn’t be as necessary if fights weren’t crap by design.
The bosses take hundreds of pulls on the higher end/the harder end despite DBM, not because of it.
I have it. Not the biggest fan, though, because I had the raptor mount from ZG (before it was popular to farm), which was my go-to “I’m riding a raptor on the alliance” mount.
Still mad I never got the cat mount from that place.
No, i hate DBM, i hate that addons so much, it’s annoying and destroys the experience in dungeons…
But sadly the friggin Psyche scream is almost invisible without the DBM…
AotC is barely raiding.
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#1 Raids are actually pretty doable without DBM. Pretty much everything they do is either on a decently strict timer or strictly telegraphed. To that extent saying that raids are designed around DBM is false, because you can totally do them without it.
#2 One of the biggest strengths of WoW has always been its powerfully moddable UI. DBM isnt even the most powerful tool made for raiding, its just the most pug-oriented one of note.
#3 If you’re saying fights are made harder and more complex because the developers expect you crutch, not necessarily just on DBM, but addons in general, that may be true. At this point though, its hard not for me to reductively boil down the argument to “ew game is hard”
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There’s something heavily contradictory about both saying:
“The boss fights are terribly designed, that’s why people need DBM!”
and then saying
“But the boss fights are still challenging even with DBM”
That sounds like good fight design to me
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If you’ve done even one pull on something like Mythic N’zoth you’ll realize why these timers are so incredibly important, as well as why Mythic N’zoth is such a terrible, atrocious fight.
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I still don’t see how DBM has any blame/part in this.
The fight could be well designed and still require DBM
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Indeed. But as it stands absolutely nothing about that fight is well-telegraphed, you need timers to keep track of stuff on it, and it would probably be borderline-impossible without DBM or BigWigs.
DBM helps make fights challenging without making them downright stupid.
I don’t like it either but it’s the way the game works and everyone expects you to know the fight long before it goes live. It’s like watching spoilers for a tv series before you even watch it. That’s how wow is these days.
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Fair enough.
It’s more like studying for an exam before you take it
A test is something quite different but in a way you’re right the game is basically an exam and everyone who fails won’t get invites. Simple.
DBM is nowhere near has hand-holding as it was and in expansions I didn’t play much (Cata) I never feel confident in these dungeons even with DBM.
I remember when it would tell you where to stand in some dungeons/raids and I think Blizz put an end to that. I feel like DBM now just tells you things you can easily see via a boss telegraph or even their cast bar. It just makes it more obvious and that’s okay, but I don’t feel it’s as “necessary” to group content as I did in Wrath or before.
I see your point. Having to learn from PTR videos and seeing other people do the fights, though, is kind of like stealing the answer form and memorizing them before the test. Studying to me would be more like, you know, going in and doing the fights yourself a few times to get it right.
Quick edit: which yes I realize we do that as well when we’re raiding lol but I am just riffing off your metaphor here.