Everything about this! Well worded. Thank you.
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I’m an old timer, and while there was DBM back in the day, raiding was different.
Back in vanilla and tbc, the raids took guilds multiple weeks to clear, and it was a lot harder to record gameplay for YouTube. We relied on strat guides on elitistjerks and the like, and even then you still needed to practice.
Like, i could explain to everyone how to do integration by parts (calculus), but without doing many practice problems, you will not reliably be able to get an answer.
Raids were like that. I remember netherspite in TBC. It’s not a hard fight, but learning it was hellllllllll, even with the use of DBM. Back then, DBM was more just timers and raid warnings - you still had to know wtf to do. GREEN BEAM!!! It’s pretty meaningless is you don’t know the right. We had to practice as a raid before we could get it down - more about communication than the addon yelling at us.
So anyway, i agree with this. I don’t use DBM in dungeons at all, because part of the game is looking up at the crap you’re standing in.
Also DBM malfunctions, which is hilarious even you rely on it too much
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And now those same people clear those raids in about 40 mins. It’s always been down to player knowledge and competence, and not the game itself.
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Thanks for your EXTREMELY useful input.
Turn off your DBM.
This is my big thing. Seeing Mythic cleared by the top raiders on the first week it’s released is INCREDIBLY disappointing.
Gladly. Can you still get me into a Mythic raiding guild without DBM? Without also using a simulation tool to make sure the best items are equipped?
If you’re joining a guild, you’re subject to their requirements. If you’re unable to find one that suits you, start your own.
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I loathe the fact that people know the fights before they do the fights. It sucks all the wonder right out of the experience. It’s like reading a walkthrough before you play a console game. It reduces the player to nothing but a very good memorizer and button-pusher.
But most player like to follow instructions.
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When raiding Molten Core, prior to these addons, we would have someone specified to be the timer. They would time and relay any relevant timers to the raid. Addons just automate this and leave that player free to do what they are supposed to do (normally it was a DPS).
While it could be challenging, it wasn’t very efficient and if your timer wasn’t good, well, they would have 39 other people really upset with them.
I agree, it has contributed in big part to make encounters overly long and complicated that the own devbçs can’t test too.
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The fact of the matter is that raids and dungeons are currently designed with DBM in mind and that has changed raid design significantly, and it’s a lame direction in my opinion. Not using a system that Blizzard basically expects to be used at a high level is like not using aimed shot on a marksmanship hunter…
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I’ve been through most of Nya without DBM it’s fine if you can:
A - look at a cast bar
B - look at the ground
If you want to really hardmode it, find some bros and go for it.
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Most encounters can be done without DBM. It’s called a raid leader.
Mine was busted for two weeks and i only realized when i noticed i had a debuff that it didn’t announce to me.
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This dwarf gets it.
I’m actually surprised, and a little overjoyed, to see so many responses in this thread against DBM and the like.
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Mmyep. Felt more like I was brushing up for a test when this began to become the norm in my raiding experience.
When even casual guilds started to expect this sort of thing, it started to really fall apart. I want to play a game, and be challenged by said game, not brush up for a test! I want to fail, and learn from that, not fail because I didn’t move three inches to the right at 3 minutes 4 seconds into the fight and do the hokey pokey as instructed.
Ah well. I’d concede raiding might just not be for me, because I can still get the experience I want - in dungeons. M+ has been a lifesaver, I only wish it had more content.
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Totally. The supersession room in bwl back in vanilla… It was such a WTF DO WE EVEN DO. A lot of fun
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I mean, everything is terribly fast in wow now to the point that i don’t think players even know what “grind” means.
Totally different view of game design, and the community seems to like that extremely quick “give me my reward” gameplay. Those fast clears are a simple result of changing attitudes in wow
Hey.
I got my Winterspring mount the old-fashioned way.
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Its almost always people with mediocre raid history saying that raids are easy.
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I feel like the fact that you need out of game tools to play any content in the game is an extreme fail of developers and design overall. Addons should be an extra timesaver/convenience thing not an absolute necessity.
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