Not needed at all, the issue was that this comp could push 2 key levels higher than any other before the nerfs and that tricked down into the rest of the keys. Even in 20s there’s a noticeable difference in run quality when you have 3 or 4 members of this comp vs yolo groups.
The only one of these that’s really REQUIRED, is Augvoker. The spec is too OP and blizz doesn’t know how to bring it in line. It makes tanks tankier and heals healier through ebon might, which no other dps can do. Having an augvoker means whatever key you’re doing, you probably could’ve done it 1-2 key levels higher. It’s the only spec anymore I see that pugs are demanding, and it’s from 15s+, mainly once 20s hit, every other key listed is NEED AUG. Aug needs huge HUGE nerfs to not be mandatory, but then they’ll be useless (I’m ok with that, i know others aren’t). The skill progression isn’t linear like all other dps it’s exponential, so the better you play and the better your friends play, the higher the output that if it were 2 normal dps playing well.
The second one thats nice to have, but not required is priest because of PI and MD. Their damage is still really good in keys, but it’s not the reason. PI needs to be self-cast, it’s caused so much turmoil since it became an external (another reason aug needs nerfed, it’s PI but a spec).
Fire mage is great, not required, but still just does more damage than anything in the game in a key, and it’s because they’re uncapped aoe essentially, aug prescience gives them crit which they love (not bis stat they go for but it’s always good for them) and they just scale very well having an aug and PI.
Bear is nice, but now about even with DH, pally not too far behind. Tanks are more fluid but they’ve always been 1 or 2 at the top anyway cause tanks just tend to play the meta.
Holy pally is the bis healer cause it’s fun to play and healing is dogwater in DF. Also Aug double dips with them because ebon might makes them do more damage and more healing.
TL;DR: nerf augvoker hard
Take this week as an example (Bursting). Do we NEED a priest for this affix? The answer is no we don’t. We need DPS to pay attention to the stacks and slow DPS until the stacks drop off. BUT can you get them to do that? I’ve yet to see it in a group this week. So, Nope, I won’t run a key this week without a priest and its completely a player created issue.
3 Likes
Curious as to why Mage was omitted from the title
Somewhat, but there are some large easy pulls that can shave a lot of time off your run if you have that MD ready and in higher keys are almost necessary because of the timer. Yes, dps need to pay attention, but if you can brrrt without abandon this week because you thought to bring MD, then all the better.
- What M+ level do you consider “higher keys”?
- Can these not be completed without the god comp, or just not completed as well/easily?
If you’re comparing the best players in the world, doing the highest keys in the world, they are always going to gravitate towards whatever meta is the strongest. There is no way to balance it, there will always be a strongest, and the people doing the highest possible content will always pick the strongest.
If you’re talking about +20, where rewards max out (or even +17 where the potential of rewards max out and you just have to spend some flight stones leveling the gear up), then any class and any comp can complete those dungeons without much problem. NOBODY needs the meta comp unless they’re going for the title. If you are not going for the title, or haven’t gone for the title in the past, you should not have to worry about the meta comp.
Personally I think blizzard should just cap dungeons at M+20 and make the sweats play some other game if they want it harder.
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This is the first time I’m hearing about this
I am referring to 22 and up keys . This is where you see the most desire to fill groups with specific classes due to their utility / DMG profile.
I giggled.
I wouldn’t consider “high keys” a level of 22, I’d consider it around 25-26+ range which is where the meta becomes far more mandatory. Any classes “can” do 20-24 level keys, but it will definitely be harder than doing it with a meta comp regardless if it “can” be done. At 25-26+ I’m sure 1 off meta spec could work, but they would need to be surrounded by the rest of the group being meta.
There are statistics proving that SL S3/4 wasn’t even close to as mandatory in terms of meta requirement. It was bad, I won’t argue that, but this season has set a whole new bar
I don’t think it’s really all that subjective… if you can “pug” a key without comms, I wouldn’t consider it a high key. Pug groups seem to fall off in LFG around 24-25 outside of a rare key higher than that typically. If a key doesn’t require a coordinated group with comms I don’t think it’s difficulty enough content to be warranted as a “high key”.
Ya you’re right, everyone competing in TGP or MDI who absolutely need the meta comp to compete aren’t skilled at all. Stop giving advice on something you don’t know anything about. Nobody here is talking about +20 keys requiring the meta comp (which even then would still make a 20 feel multiple key levels easier than a non meta comp).
Ya, mind soothe, mass dispel, and PI are overrated. So is the fact holy pally has received around 40% throughput nerfs over the last bunch of tuning passes, yet are still the best healer… definitely not required
Notice it says “22+,” which means “and up.”
This sounds like splitting hairs. People don’t NEED a meta in coordinated friend/guild groups.
What percentage of the WoW playerbase does +22 keys I wonder.
True, I know they are in the gutter, but they could always be more in the gutter.
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All subjective. That said, I don’t care about this argument at all. I simply pointed out to that other poster you quoted me on that the OP is running 22s and called those “high.” So I thank you for sharing with me your opinion on what a “high key” is.
I hate demon hunter tanks.
2 Likes
The real problem is the way that people think and see the exodia squad.
It’s not that it CAN’T be done without the exodia squad it’s that they make it so much easier for those 22 and 23s. It was already done beforehand but that squad makes it to easy.
It is super unfortunate for other classes and i don’t see any other changes being made before next season honestly
It isn’t being addressed because Blizzard barely understands their own game nowadays.
They also have different people work on different things, and it’s pretty clear there isn’t anyone managing those people in a way that ensures consistency.
Honestly, it’s pretty clear that “something” will consist of S3’s dungeon loadout.
S2, it’s clear, was scuffed because they picked a whole bunch of dungeons that fall easily to the same stratagems, and therefore, to the same associated optimal comp.
Yeah. A lot of WoW is like that these days unfortunately - I think that in large degree it all boils down to real life being much more uncertain for many more players.
Consider that both of the big surges for MMOdom were during major world events (the 2008 mortgage crisis and COVID) that forced a lot of people out of work to the point that government stepped in with significant additional assistance, meaning you had a bunch of people who had a bit of money and a lot of free time and you have ideal conditions for WoW (especially so during the 2008 crisis, doubtless because that time people also still had savings to rely on, Wrath was so much better received than Shadowlands, and because OG Wrath really was “pay basically the price of a movie ticket/drink/popcorn and be entertained as often as you want for the whole month” vs. the modern Retail regime that puts so much pressure to spend gold that many players feel the sub is just a baseline expense now).
Under normal circumstances, you have fewer players, and more of those players are forced to PUG because RL is so much less flexible when you’re working, so PUG related issues are much more wont to crop up.
There’s also how no-brainer much of the meta utility is. Mass Dispel is easy to use and takes a lot of pressure off of things. PI and Aug buffs are literally just “push button to make somebody more effective for a period of time,” it’s hard to screw those up either,
None of those specs are necessary or needed for keys +24 and below. The average player group won’t even go into keys above +21 and can play whatever they want.
It depends on your definition of “higher” keys.