Do people with no gear deserve to be shamed?

[Físsion-dalaran]

No.

Either you value some degree of sportsmanship or live your life like an angry whiny baby. Choose. Choose now, because it gets harder to change later on.

[Dosao-bonechewer (Dosao)]

You mean trick ppl to ruin their experience. Sitting in an AV tunnel with 40 other players , they put the portals on top of lockstones, you can hardly see it in the close quarters and with the light from the stones obscuring it. And you don’t expect your own team to sabotage you … well as I said there is a way to pay the mage back in the same coin.

[Shantarin-wyrmrest-accord (Shantarin)]

@Dosao-bonechewer

I am not sure if your main is the DH you are posting on. But you are undergeared yourself . Pot calling kettle black ?

Not by much, and I’m not routinely, hopelessly out geared by 90% of players.

@Muffindiver-dentarg

Shantarin is the Road Warrior screaming in BG chat about undergeared scrubs while the rest of us are capping nodes.

I’m usually carrying for people who felt entitled to my time and effort without contributing much of anything themselves. You’re remarkably prone to assuming the intent of someone after crying about me assuming people who show up for games where they’re going to get the tar knocked out of them are only there because they know Blizzard gives them loot even if they lose.

@Nawat-emerald-dream

Your reasonable expectation is actually made up of pure nonsense. The undergeared person is there to win so that they can get some PvP gear and gear up. The whole point of random bgs since the beginning of time.

“I am going to call your argument nonsense but not once will I give a valid reason for why someone gets to share a battleground with people who are so far beyond their own gear that they’ll kill them in two hits.”

@Nawat-emerald-dream

You know what’s not reasonable? Fully geared people queing for random bgs. The whole point and process is for you to get starting gear from random bgs. Then take that gear into rated bgs and match up against equally geared and eventually evenly skilled people. You even mention match making. Guess what, rated does that. You want good games go do rated.

“Don’t you dare hold anyone to standards! Even when there’s absolutely no way they could be naive about their own ability to contribute to the game you must assume they have the best intentions and really want to win! Oh, and my own standards are iron clad and must be respected!”

@Nawat-emerald-dream

There should be a max ilvl to que for random bgs. 465 or whatever the new equivalent is. Any higher than that should go do rated bgs.

Or match making could just ensure that people have reasonably fair matches based on average item level.

[Orisarn-jubeithos]

@Relisha-shuhalo

To be honest I don’t know WHO has time to be checking out everyone else’s gear. They must really think that item level = competence

In a normal BG, you have about 2 mins before you can run out the door.
in that time I can inspect the majority of my team and can quickly look over their items.
in that 2 min window I can tell if we are in with a chance or we are probably going to get dunked on.

[Favi-burning-blade (Favi)]

@Katri-ravencrest

Getting a feel for a spec in the prepatch to see if they want to play it in shadowlamds.

Getting the feel of their face to the ground as they take chain dirt naps

[Muffindiver-dentarg (Muffindiver)]

@Orisarn-jubeithos

In a normal BG, you have about 2 mins before you can run out the door.
in that time I can inspect the majority of my team and can quickly look over their items.
in that 2 min window I can tell if we are in with a chance or we are probably going to get dunked on.

Do you also call a WSG over after the first flag cap?

[Orisarn-jubeithos]

No thats why I said " in with a chance " and " probably going to get dunked on "
nothing is set in stone and a smart player will always be valuable but at the moment its more of a flashy NUMBERS ARE GREATER THEN game.

you know your in for a good time when your a clothie with 20,000hp and everyone else on your team is between 12,000 to 16,000

[Foxxsy-area-52]

Been reading a lot of “there should be a way to gear for pvp adequately”.

There SHOULD. But there isn’t right now except by doing PvE. Queueing up at ilevel 65 for a casual BG then crying about gear while your team loses cause you can do nothing is only wasting your time and the time of everyone you play with.

[Frostzadan-quelthalas]

such a good statement, this is so true.

[Oonkiss-khazgoroth]

@Ephie-lightninghoof

We need more people queuing for PvP and this hazing only serves to shrink our numbers.

Casual bgs this prepatch are such steaming manure (in my humble experience) that its a wonder anyone even bothers queuing.

[Forums-skeram]

No, not at all. There is never a justified reason to “shame” anyone in a video game. The game design allows people “without” gear to enter. That’s just bad design. Super casuals are just going to go where it seems interesting and are likely not going to know about some social standards invented by people who cannot fathom why anyone less “awesome” than they are play this game.

[Shantarin-wyrmrest-accord (Shantarin)]

In my experience is was never an innocent newbie who just didn’t know any better, it was always someone who was specifically doing it because a fresh-to-120 character could gear faster doing BG’s than anything else since the gear level was hard set. They’d say something about ‘teamwork’ if you brought it up and then they’d whine and scream when they started losing their favored matches while you sat back and watched to make a point.

Of course if I reminded them that I didn’t do BG’s till I had a set of at least ‘average’ gear they’d get quiet.

If someone legitimately doesn’t know any better that’s one thing, but most of the people who showed up to BG’s in the latter part of the expansion seemed to know exactly what they were doing. It’s terrible game design on Blizzard’s part, but that just means the player base picks up the slack.

[Forums-skeram]

I still don’t blame the player if the game is designed that way. People were able to choose NOT to work during the start of the pandemic because they could get several months worth of unemployment and make more than people who worked. Those that chose not to work were called leeches, scum, etc. Can’t blame them for going where the money is.

[Jelybeantoes-moon-guard (Jelybeantoes)]

@Favi-burning-blade

This environment should change when Honor once again can allow players to purchase a base-level of gear from vendors with the full release of Shadowlands. Hopefully, the PvP vendor will remain updated with each season, allowing players to jump in and remain at most 3 or 4 tiers of gear behind the the bleeding edge.

@Holycow-uldaman

Hopefully, they narrow the power gap.

Back when we were young and so naive…

@Shantarin-wyrmrest-accord

I have a reasonable expectation that the people I am being put in a BG with are there to win, not to be a burden, who are only even there because Blizzard won’t make the match making system do it’s job- it’ll also have PUGs fight premades which makes no sense at all- and the only reason undergeared people are even there is because they know relevant upgrades will be given to them regardless of whether they win or lose which then puts people who are geared past that point in an awkward position where they’re probably put in a compromising situation because they are there to win where as these under geared scrubs are there to be a warm body.

This doesn’t sound like wow at all. What game are you playing where new players get guaranteed upgrades from entry-level PvP?

[Jelybeantoes-moon-guard (Jelybeantoes)]

It has something to do with the fact that they want to play the game. Hard concept, eh?

@Shantarin-wyrmrest-accord

In my experience is was never an innocent newbie who just didn’t know any better, it was always someone who was specifically doing it because a fresh-to-120 character could gear faster doing BG’s than anything else since the gear level was hard set. They’d say something about ‘teamwork’ if you brought it up and then they’d whine and scream when they started losing their favored matches while you sat back and watched to make a point.

Confirmation bias, pure and simple. The idea that random bgs are the fastest and most effective way to gear up is not just way out there, it is way, way out there.

[Vulkova-illidan]

Good thing I don’t bother reading chat in random bg’s. Talk crap about my alt with 12k health, I’m not going to read it lol.

[Shantarin-wyrmrest-accord (Shantarin)]

@Jelybeantoes-moon-guard

This doesn’t sound like wow at all. What game are you playing where new players get guaranteed upgrades from entry-level PvP?

It’s not as bad now with the item level squish but for the last content patch of BFA as a fresh-to-120 your best source of gear was actually PVP. And you got gear regardless of whether you win or lose.

[Jelybeantoes-moon-guard (Jelybeantoes)]

I did some bgs. Gear was rare. It was anything but guaranteed.

[Shantarin-wyrmrest-accord (Shantarin)]

The person who decided I said that was you.

You have a chance to win gear, but you do get gear when you lose. Just not every game.

[Chadarach-thrall]

It’s Blizzard’s fault.

They need to make real catch up gear available. Necklace should have already been removed.

Why level a toon only to have to park it until SL launch? The catch up gear for the event is still trash.