i kinda liked it in df when all 3 specs had shadow dance, it feels much nicer to use vs vanish
1 Like
No! It sucks. It’s mostly unusable in solo content. It takes away your escape mechanism. It’s just a poorly thought out mechanic.
18 Likes
I would rather Outlaw be a more in the open spec, have stealth to sneak around but I don’t want to use any of those abilities as part of a normal dps rotation. Stealth / Dance dps has been and should be relegated to Sub.
As a side note, since we seem to be stuck as pirates give me back Cannonball Barrage and have its CD affected by restless blades.
6 Likes
Shadow dance for outlaw is way out of place and will never belong.
It is an ability strictly for subtlety.
8 Likes
No one asked for. No one likes. No one knows why this happened.
5 Likes
It happened because they took Shadow Dance out the class tree but still had about 5 combat stealth related talents in each Spec tree. Basically taking out Shadow Dance to replace it with a worse alternative which is a decision that is good for no one.
3 Likes
Now they finally removed SnD from the rotation, and I have a big empty space on my non-stealth bar, I’m starting to miss shadow dance.
I don’t -hate- double vanish. It at least feels a little more streamlined and having 2 vanishes can feel pretty useful. Especially in PvP. As mentioned above it though, it do be a pain in solo content. Or there can be situations, like that dragon boss in Grim Batol where a poorly timed vanish can get the group blown up. Similar situation in motherlode with the bombs.
I like the idea of vanish being a utility button but don’t really see a situation where it’s not a core part of your rotation unless they take rogue all the way back to say; TBC where it was only really used for applying a garrote. And I’m not really an advocate of going back to that either. Although some people probably would be.
1 Like
I do not mind Vanish being part of DPS rotation.
The problem is they need to buff other tools after they have nerfed them over the years.
CloS should be back to 1 minute CD. Un nerf Crimson Vial. Make Smoke Bomb baseline.
Easy to do and easy fixes for Rogues.
2 Likes
you might not mind it but do you like/enjoy it?
I’m sure this is part of the overall strategy of giving players talents that require a choice: use it to open on a target, or use it to escape. I would argue this is part of a larger problem which is the Rogue identity and playstyle. If we are supposed to open from stealth to do meaningful damage then we need a means of reentering stealth; however the old combat system (“you can’t do that you’re in combat…”) prevents this in many cases. So here we are, Vanish to the rescue. That said, I don’t know what the solution should be; giving Shadow Dance to everyone felt like a bandage.
EDIT: Scratch that. After a lot of thought, I guess I do know at least one solution: Reentering Stealth should be LOS based, not Combat restricted. Give Rogues a reason to sneak around corners and renter combat regardless of the instance/zone/mad-dungeon-dash. Also, combat restrictions in general need a major overhaul. Nothing pisses me off more than my toon forgetting how to mount and fly because something, somewhere, more than a minute ago, decided it wants me in combat.
1 Like
Yes, yes I do.
2 Likes
I kinda want both. I want vanish as a defense cooldown only. With a short no attack cooldown to prevent anyone from trying to use it for dps.
Then I want 2 cooldowns of the old shadow dance for dps only. With a nice crit buff attached.
This way we can do full dps when soloing.
2 Likes
Honestly, the state of Rogue right now is just… Bad.
Having to use vanish as a DPS cooldown is horrible. Especially because it cripples rogue in solo play, because vanish drops threat.
Outlaw is the worse offender of the three specs right now. Crackshot is awful. I genuinely HATE the crackshot gameplay loop. Combat was supposed to be the less stealth focused spec, and yet our massive burst window is dependent on stealth. Like what???
And don’t even get me started on buff roulette. Gotta maintain my slice and dice, remember to blade flurry, roll the bones every 45 seconds, be sure I maximize adrenaline rush, remember to take advantage of upperhanded upper hand to get the most time out of my buffs. Pray to RNJesus that Roll the Bones grants me something I want.
It’s a lot of work for not a lot of pay off imo.
5 Likes
I like it, coming from dnd re hiding during combat to do damage feels good to me. I think baseline it should have 2 charges tho so you can keep 1 spare for defensive use. Id also like if vanish gave you extra buffs tho on top of the “from stealth” to make it more impactful and feel more like a damage spike
Imagine we had a class tree capstone in place pf Thistle Tea that actually synergized with the other Outlaw capstones and let you play a different build.
Shadow Dance needs to go back to the class tree regardless.
Hell no, trying to play as Assassination with Deathstalker hero talents is a nightmare. If you don’t get your stealth ambush attack or otherwise lose the mark for whatever reason, Vanish is the only way you can reapply it in combat. To my knowledge this means Deathstalker Sin rogue is the only spec that can basically just lose most of their Hero Talents for up to two minutes at a time, or for the full duration of a fight in solo content unless they reset entirely.
5 Likes
Found the smart one.
4 Likes
I can understand the frustration of needing to weave a Vanish into your rotation for DPS, but I think Shadow Dance should stay a Subtlety only ability. It’s way too thematic to fit into the other specs in my honest opinion. Especially Outlaw. I think it takes away from the uniqueness of Subtlety’s spec flavor as well if everyone has it.
3 Likes
i would definitely prioritize game feel/smoothness over something like thematics
2 Likes
Could easily give the other 2 Rogue specs a way to enter stealth similar to (but not exactly like) Shadow Dance without ripping the ability wholesale from the spec. That would require too much thought though probably.
Like after so many presses of an ability or X amount of stacks of whatever, you can work up to a free Vanish charge where you can press it, and it won’t waste any for when you need Vanish defensively.
1 Like