Do not take my pet

Once again, I am going to come at this from the perspective of someone who has mained a marksman hunter with a pet for the past 15 years. I’ve had a recurring subscription the entire time, and play daily for about an hour on average. Is that casual? Kinda. I’m by no means a hard-core min-maxer pushing Mythic+ 20 keys or raids. I’ve dabbled in raiding, and Mythic dungeons (low keys), and even some pvp in the past for a few Vicious mounts. I suppose I fall into the oft-overlooked “mid-core” type of player that Holly Longdale was saying that Blizzard wants to focus their attentions on to make us feel included. Most days, I do questing and world content, delves, weekly runs, and time limited events. A big part of the game for me is mount and pet and transmog and toy collecting. I’m an achievement hunter and play a bit of everything. For me, WoW isn’t just about pushing end game content; WoW is an immersive experience that let’s me escape the headaches of the real world for a bit, and my character is an extension of myself, existing in this digital landscape.

So I think it’s fair to say that I am heavily invested in both WoW as a game, my character, and yes, my pet.

Anyone who is annoyed or can’t understand why people are still “complaining about this one change,” when said change is actually removing a core aspect of the class, is being disingenuous, because for many of us, this issue is bigger than any other change Blizz has put forward in this rework. This isn’t like they took away a single spell or ability. This is not Blizzard taking away Murder of Crows as a talent and giving it to only Beast Masters, something that mildly annoyed me but I could live without. This is taking away the pet, and even the OPTION to continue using our pets, ENTIRELY. For some of us, that is enough reason for the uproar, because the pet is more than just a spell or ability, for two main reasons: it has utility functions as well as emotional and aesthetic purpose. Let’s explore both of these:

Pet as utility.

There are a lot of reasons having a pet for utility is great: in the open world or in delves solo, the pet is a mini tank that can taunt and keep mobs off my hunter. And honestly, to the people complaining about how the pet is “tricky to manage,” it really isn’t. The pet is set to focus on whatever mob I initially tab target and holds it until dead, and then moves on to any additional mobs I have aggro’d until they are dead. Yes, I can utilize traps and stuns for some mitigation, but I like having my pet keep the active mob at bay. Without it, elite mobs either a) run right up to you and start smacking you so you’re getting hurt while shooting them point blank (sniper fantasy? LOL, no), or b) you’re kiting them around running backwards hoping you either don’t pull them off their tether and resetting them or accidentally running through additional mobs like a cracked out squirrel (again, this is not a “sniper fantasy”). The closest way to maintain that sniper fantasy as a solo player is, ironically, to utilize a pet as a mini tank. Just keep an eye on it’s health, spam mend pet where necessary, and you’re golden. If pet dies? Aspect of the turtle and revive pet, boom, you’re back in business. Pet pathing has also greatly improved over the years, and the few areas it would be an issue are in dungeons and raids, where most players who are marksman dismiss their pet anyway for the small dps boost.

As an aside, “fetch” is a wonderful quality of life technique for non-engineers lacking a loot-a-rang.

Pet as companion.

Aside from the function of the pet, for many of us, there is still an emotional bond formed with our pets that is iconic to more than just the spec, but unifies hunters as a whole class. Hunters get to:

  • Choose pets that match our character, our transmog, our fantasy.

  • We tame them, name them, and they adventure by our side.

Now, after 20 years and two failed attempts at removing the pet (because surprise, many hunters are attached to their pets), Blizzard is removing the option for us to use them. And the really annoying thing is, they didn’t HAVE to do this, they are CHOOSING to. For the past 10 years, players have had the option to either continue using their pet, or go lone wolf and get a compensatory dps boost.

This rework addresses issues that the lone wolf crowd had with the spec by removing bloodlust from the pet and putting it onto the hunter, which is what they wanted, which is FINE, however in that same rework they decided to euthanize everyone’s pet. Why? This is completely unnecessary. They can do everything they want in this rework WITHOUT forcing those of us who use a pet to give them up, simply by making all of those abilities, stat boosts, and bloodlust to the hunter, rather than be dependent on the pet, that way utilizing a pet would be explicitly optional. That way everyone wins. Those who like the changes but don’t want a pet can have them and those of us who want to continue using our pets still can. That’s compromise. That is a win/win for everyone. And that is feedback that I’ve seen pushed from the hunter crowd who want to keep our pets in the forums and on social media.

The anti-pet crown, however, have been coming off as condescending, vitriolic, and unhelpful, with no attempt at finding a compromise that would let us keep our pets. Things I keep saying repeated and the problems with them:

  • “If you want to play with a pet, go play Beast Mastery or Survival.” No. First, those specs play completely differently. Beast Mastery is a spec that focuses on managing a zoo, and makes me feel like I’m the sidekick to my pet, instead of the other way around, and I do not like the poison and trap management of survival, or the fact that it’s melee. I enjoy being a ranged bowman with a trusty lynx by my side. Or like, the iconic dwarf Mountaineer with a single bear pet that is literallya core part of the original cinematic. I like the same style of gameplay as all of these so-called “sniper” fantasy marksman, just with a pet. Also, let’s flip this whole bad faith argument on it’s head, shall we? “If you want to play a petless ranged class, go play mage.” What do you mean it isn’t the same? Okay then, stop telling us to just go play something else, hypocrites.

  • “Marksman don’t use pet/all marksman play without pets/marksman haven’t used a pet for years.” Again, this is simply not true. Not only is this hyperbolic, but these platitudes about “all” marksmen not using pets fail to cite any real concrete data or sources for these claims. It is extremely disingenuous to suggest that only the side from your echo chamber is correct and everyone else is either wrong or can be dismissed. Lots of logical fallacies being thrown around to dismiss the concerns of marksman who utilize our pets, and it’s honestly disappointing.

  • “You aren’t losing your pet, you can still use it on BM or SV spec.” See response above. This again is a bad faith argument.

  • “Blizzard is giving you an eagle, that’s your pet.” No it isn’t, and I don’t want it. First off, it isn’t a pet, it’s a glorified spell effect that procs sometimes. You don’t tame it, you don’t name it, it may not fit your race or character fantasy, and cannot be changed or customized. I don’t want some random eagle that “exists outside of the game space,” I want the lynx I’ve kept by my side that last 15 years which doesn’t disappear in 5 seconds.

Again, pro-pet players are not trying to say that the anti-pet crowd can’t have the things they want. Just make those changes baseline to the hunter instead of tied to the pet and keep the option of using a pet available so everyone is happy. It is explicitly the anti-pet crowd who are either trolling those of us who want to keep our pets at this point or dismissing us with logical fallacies or outright malice. Don’t want to hear about people fighting about pets? Fine, but Blizzard needs to address the community about this. They wanted feedback, and when you take away a core part of the class from one spec of that class, regardless of how you personally feel about it, a change this big was bound to incite feedback that dwarfs every other change made in this major shakeup. By ignoring this and remaining silent on the issue, Blizzard is allowing it to fester. Since by removing the pet entirely, they are siding with the anti-pet crowd, and the rest of us reserve the right to push back and be vocal about it. I will die on this hill. Do not take my pet. The only people who don’t want marksman to have pets don’t want ANY marksmen to have pets out of malice and spite.

Blizzard has the opportunity to fix this and make everyone happy. If this goes live as is, it certainly will not, and many of us will continue to push back and be vocal.

Again, I have mained a marksman hunter with a pet for 15 years, and I have a deep investment in my character, on my customization, on my agency, and my pets. Do not take my pet.

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From pre-Legion survival hunters: First time?

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As a pre-Legion hunter who loved ranged survival No, not my 1st time. So maybe being a bit more vocal about the terrible changes, rather than sitting on my laurels and hoping bad changes will be reverted, will get the point across to these devs who dont even play beyond min/max mythic plus and raid hunter. (Assuming any of these devs play a hunter at all)

No need to take the pet from MM when u can make Lust baseline to the Hunter. We who want pets get to keep our pets while those who dont like having to summon a pet for the Lust are still happy.

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Tell me you’re both condescending and didn’t read the post without telling me you’re condescending and didn’t read the post, bucko.

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If the call pet and other basic pet functions were a baseline feature as it is on live(summon or dont summon a pet, your choice) while continuing with the other changes like having the utility on the Hunter, I’d be happy and I’m sure many players would(if they also worked out the bugged 11.1 talents and maybe added a Trueshot feature we could feel is active).

It is a big if, but if the Traditional pet was made able to be optional, Blizzard has the capabilities to make those pets do nearly no damage but generate very high threat to aid in eliminating any balancing concern and helping those that really want their pets for solo content and companionship.

Hopefully we hear some news soon either way so as a community we can move our focus to testing the rest of the 11.1 changes.

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It’s gonna be so nice to see so many happy new BM hunters.

Agree, but I am, sadly, 1/2 way expecting certain members, of the side that comes out on top, will decide to rub it in the faces of the other side.

The best case scenario will really be the pro-pet side comes out on top, due to something along the lines of what you posted, so any one against it really appears to be against it only cause it makes others happy.

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Just going to repost this from the main thread. It’s literally Blizzard’s own words when they tried to pull this in Legion.

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Fixed that for you to reflect what will likely be the reality

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I’d be happier than i am with what’s currently on the ptr. But not happier than I am with the mm tree that’s currently live. I think it’s fantastic at the moment. Way smoother than what they’re proposing with the stupid rng bird, and double stacking streamline to make the horrendous AS cast time functional. It’s just hoops you have to jump through to get it to feel like it does today.

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Right, I’m one of those rare players that didnt play MM a ton of seasons, so change isn’t super personal, but I see what we are gaining, and what little we are losing I can acknowledge and miss. Can I play MM without the pet in my chosen gameplay, PvP(mostly BGs including solo BGs)? Absolutely. Can I protect a flag while CCed if the “pet” I have does 0 damage? No, but neither can most specs, so I guess Ill have to plan to not have the real pet. I do feel for those that rely more or are more attached to their pets than I am.

Hopefully the 11.1 rotation will feel more fluid and effective when the bugs are fixed. Hopeful for some reworked, combined, or made baseline talents as well.

As for the option to play BM, sometimes I do play BM. Not because I like to use lots of pets, but because covering an enemy player in 6 pets while doing tons of damage and never needing to stand still is super effective. I can see why people enjoy BM, I also know why I prefer MM. I enjoy a physical damage ranged class that feels like I’m the one doing the damage. Thanks to the pvp talent letting me move during Aimed Shot casts with Cheetah active, the new rotation is pretty nice when mobility is needed.

My hunter ( 3 rd oldest toon ) since early BC. I’m RIGHT there with you. Lone wolf is fine, why do this?

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I whole heartedly agree. Removing pets entirely from any hunter spec has got to be one of the worst design decisions in wows history. Right up there with making one of the most popular ranged specs in the game a melee spec that no one played for years and years.

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This post is well put and I agree with everything you said. I’ve mained only hunters since Wrath, mostly MM because the traditional archer with a pet playstyle is, to me, perfection. I also enjoy Lone Wolf from time to time as well and use it for group content. I remember when it had pet utilties integrated into it, and I’m not sure why they couldn’t just bring that back in some form without removing our pets and forcing the eagle on people who liked the completely pet free aspect of Lone Wolf. We had a good thing going before this, even with the flaws.

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What I would really like is for BLIZZARD to engage with the marksman hunter community. We’ve provided a ton of feedback and gone back and forth about the loss of our pets more than every other topic related to 11.1 combined. Rather than let the infighting continue, I would like Blizzard to respond to the feedback and engage with the community instead of leaving us on read for weeks on end.

Blizzard, are you listening? Because I do not feel heard, and many others do not either. Can you please respond to our concerns and engage with us, rather than let this back and forth continue to fester? Please and thank you.

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Sadly, this probably isn’t going to happen. If they change course they will announce it and maybe give a tiny explanation, but they are pretty well known for being tight lipped on everything. If there’s an interview in the near future with preset questions that would be the only hope of anything beyond what there is right now.

Marksman is a different spec than it was 15 years ago though.

Sure, things change, and I get that. I remember playing marksman with Murder of Crows for a bit when we had access to it, loved it at the time, was sad to lose it, but ultimately got on. I understand that things change, spells come and go, and things are modified or tweaked. Lone Wolf is also something that I can actively adapt to as needed depending on the game play, and I have used it in the few instances where I wanted to push myself for higher level content as needed.

The thing is though, taking the pet away entirely is different than taking away an attack or modification of how the spec feels and plays. I’m not going to rehash all of the reasons for using a pet here (it’s all outlined in detail on my primary post), but it is a much more drastic change than retooling the marksman kit or making small gameplay adjustments. As of now, all marksmen have the option of using a pet or not based on their preference and play style, and everything that people who don’t want to use pets like about this update can be done without taking the option of using the pet away. So why would Blizzard intentionality take away all marksman pets when they have tried it multiple times before, have found it to be contentious every time (including now, clearly), and can rework the spec to give the petless people everything they want while also respecting the marksmen hunters who continue to use their pets? That would be a win/win scenario where everyone is happy. Instead, going forward with this forced “no pets at all” vision will alienate a significant portion of the marksmen player base. They still have the opportunity to either adjust this, reverse course, or shelve it until they find a solution that makes everyone happy.

And I know they don’t have to communicate with the community, but I can and will continue to ask them to engage.

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As a frostmage who is still sad of losing his pet option:

I bet they will argue the same: Not many people used it…so we delete it blabla…

Blizzard is just lazy :frowning: sad days!

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They did it so they can balance around all Marksmen Hunters being Petless. Not only for damage but (hopefully) utility and defensives as well.