Yea the one macro death lighting is easy mode. Shaman are kind of crap if a rogue just want to lock them down. They are cd driven and just need to learn their cds. You will find a pally team win over shaman team in ab.
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The best part about these posts is that we had the exact same posts on the Vanilla forums. Except they were all Horde players complaining about Paladins, bubble/hearth, the AV map design, horde flight paths, escape artist and anything else they could find to complain about.
Some things never change. 
Hereâs an appropriate throwback response:
LOL QQ MUCH? KKTHXBAI
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A once every three minutes stealth detector doesnât even begin to compare to passive 25% stun resist
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Stun resist is only useful against a couple classes? Lol ok. How about warriors, paladins, rogues, hunters, and ALL engineers. What a ridiculous statement lol.
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True, horde are very pvp oriented while alliance is pve.
Alliance superior pve racials like fear ward rep gains and paladins with blessings.
Also those who prefer pvp will go horde so there are better pvpers on horde. As alliance I can get attacked by 1 horde while 4 alliance runs by.
Well, they are living off the glory of us original Horde players. The ones that had to get camped 24/7 and could barely complete a quest because of how much zergling Alliance there was. They donât know anything about the real glory of the Original Horde that was watered down with Trash Elves and poor development decisions.
We had to be good in PvP because we wouldnât be able to complete any quest or do jack . I remember the joy of killing paladins on my warrior (which were like raid bosses when you werenât geared) and the raid struggles were really real Horde side as well.
Everything has literally reversed. The Horde donât have a âfearâ of getting ganked because they know or âfeelâ that back-up is right around the corner which is why they usually RUN for their lives when they start losing or fight people not fighting back.
You have to remember, in 2005 many Alliance rerolled to Horde just to be âgood at pvpâ because of the original Hordeâs battleground domination.
The reality is, most of this new Horde, either started in BC or rerolled during Vanilla to Horde.
2005+ Horde are literally just a bunch of bad Alliance players that jumped on the Horde bandwagon hype, just like their daddy Blizzard that purposely put Blood Elves and Paladins on Horde to lure more customers there. What kind of developer has an agenda against half of your customers?
After that, most changes from the story to gameplay were altered or made in a way to mainly benefit or focus on Horde players.
New Horde is like that spoiled kid or gold digger doing zero but expecting and getting everything.
Also, shameless promotion!
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Hereâs my 2c on this. Horde racials are more geared toward smaller skirmishes (world PvP comes to mind or small battles in BGs) while Alliance has more of a tactical advantage regarding the actual winning objectives of WSG and AB. That is why you saw Alliance teams won the WSG CDL tournaments because in the hands of top tier players, alliance advantage is very clear:
For WSG:
- Fear Ward is a God send for your druid FC because Flash Bomb is their biggest counter (or fear in general even with PvP trinket and Mithril Insignia. Second biggest threat is Warlockâs Deathcoil but that can be dispelled or reflected and on a 2 mins CD).
- Having freedom in conjunction with FAPs when going for the flag pick.
- melded defending NE hunters. While more of an annoyance, the NE hunters have a much easier time getting the scatter trap off on like a mage FC before getting polyâed.
- Perception to be used to pull defending rogues out as I mentioned before.
For AB:
- rogue v rogue battle down at mine favors human rogues with Perception. Horde rogue has to burn a well timed Vanish.
- the meta for Alliance premade when I was ranking was this 4 mages/3 pallies combo and they literally just AoEâed us down at Smith. You have to burn through multitudes of Ice Blocks and Bops to get them. Ele shamans couldnât do much here given how many CS the other team possesses plus CoT spam (I run at least two eles for AB and usually three) and the mages would block the moment they got targeted with EM combo. My team had to give up Smith the moment I see their setup and switched up our strat instead.
- pallies can spin flag for a long time and greatly contribute to their teamâs survival for stalling out til the next rez wave.
- melded defending NE hunters. They can just sit in meld and use their pets to interrupt flag caps and draw it out until reinforcement.
About shamans, they are undoubtedly strong with an almost guaranteed kill with their EM combo. Itâs not hard to counter (Curse of Tounge spam + zug zug the shaman) but very punishing if you donât. In a pug or less sweaty premades, I can see proper communication to stop the ele shaman be a problem.
This is not to say Horde doesnât have a cleared advantage at certain things. Example would be a horde warlock defending Farm with curse of Tounge on the rats (keep the warlock in combat so he cannot be sapped or MC helmed).
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Sure, I didnât say it was useless. There are some situations where it can help you out and, if youâre very lucky and skilled, definitely give you a jump on someone.
But itâs nowhere as widely useful as stuff like WotF, Stoneform, Hardiness, etc.
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The key words here are âskilledâ and âwidelyâ. While Perception doesnât have much used against most PvP situations but on the hands of good players in a competitive scene, it can swing the tide of the entire match. Like capping mine initially so you have a 2 to 1 advantage against Horde while LM and BS are being contested. Or catching their druid at mid and delaying the pick (even going as far as camping the druid at his GY if the rogue is good, at least until the druid gets reinforcement to escort him).
WotF, Hardiness, Stoneform have much more used on 1v1, small skirmishes, or world PvP. But I would argue those scenarios would not matter much in a BG. If an orc shaman resists a charge stun, whoop de doo heâs still gonna get zerg down by the entire opposite team. These racials will however consider much more powerful in tbc due to smaller size match and where the objective is to survive and kill the opponents (unlike battlegrounds, you can get HK farmed at mid but win the WSG match for example) and stopping a CC can actually swing the arena match. Even then Perception is still considered powerful given how many rogue/x or rdruid/x teams will be out there.
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Engineering is coded as an incapacitate. It says stun, but itâs not a stun.
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I canât wait for TBC and my Orc Warrior with skillherald. =)
It can help, yes. However it is not as useful or powerful, generally, as many other PVP abilities. There are times when the perfect use will cause a swing in the battle but those times are very infrequent. Iâd rather have a more generally-useful version, like a passive stealth detect bonus.
I dont fear, its rare when i cast fear, because its always undead, its not worth it, the time i spent casting a fear, i can cast dots or a immolate. But not because fear is not op, its part of our kit as warlock, such as vanish from rogues, dont say that, u basically say that i am a dot machine only! How i survive a rogue with i dont create a distance? Even when rogues fart they stun me, my main cc is seduce and guess what, undead racial break this too, so dont try to tell me what to do when u never play a warlock in world of undead.
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U need to se more highlights streamers videos them, theres a lot of crits there from shamans, paladins are op against stuns for sure, but that dont make more stronger than shamans.
This is true hahaah its incredible how alliance dont give a damn about world pvp, they just wanna do their dungeons, like one guy from my guild, want that reputation from winterspring to get a trinket that is useful only in pvp, when i ask why he said that he just want to have it, like a collection.
Yes but you are not going to stop a ninja cap because of it. It is impossible to know if a rogue is near you. Im not going to randomly pop perception and hope that i see a rogue. it only works in duels when you know a rogue is near
You could replace Horde with engineer and it would be way more meaningful and actually true.
âDo engineer PvPers realize that they are playing on easy mode?â
And the answer would be yes and thatâs why every serious PvPer takes engineering.
Horde racials give some advantage in PvP yes but not nearly as much advantage as sappers, thorium grenades, rocket boots, rocket helm, gnomish MC cap, shadow reflector trinket, frost reflector trinket, gnomish net-o matic, fire reflector trinket and so forth. They arenât even close to comparableâŚ
Are we soon gonna hate on people for being engineers because itâs not fair to non-engineers in PvP?
Thatâs why a lot of this was fixed in later expansions, other professions getting useful abilities and items outside of simply crafting gear anyone can use. For example, skinning getting bonus crit at some point (yes, eventually that got removed).
The same happened with racial and class abilities, theyâve shuffled them around several times in an attempt to balance things out â for better or for worse. Right now some things are just not balanced well.
You realize thereâs an add-on that plays an alarm when a rogue stealths withing your vision right?
So for that alarm to not go off he would need to be over 100 yards away when he stealths and starts the slow crawl over to you.
There is also such a thing as communication from your team to say ârogue headed to LMâ or other call outs as they could have seen the rogue mounted running that way and stealth. Then you can be prepared for it.
There is also a trick with alarm bots and engineering. (Expensive as hell though).
Itâs not that perception is bad, your just not using it properly. Itâs an information tool, and information wins over raw power.
In most BGs people have little communication but yes if it is called out a smart rogue would wait until the human warrior uses it before engaging. Like sapping and running away. It is a strong tool if you cannot escape from it.