From racials to shamans to map advantages, horde players continue to deny that they are literally playing the game on easy mode when it comes to PVP, This is not a troll post or an attack on horde players, because at the stage of Classic most people have 60s on both factions, including myself.
But I just find it really odd that many horde pvpers are ignorant to the fact that alliance players have to play 2x-3x as well as a horde team (depending on how many shamans & orcs the horde team has) in order to win. You really dont have the right to call someone else bad after winning against them when you’re stacked with advantages. Horde players know this too because they would rather wait in long queues everyday than lose their advantages by rerolling alliance. This issue will only be exacerbated come TBC when there is 0 advantage for pvpers to play on Alliance.
Thoughts?
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I mean human racial is es mode anti stealth. NE racial is EZ mode stealth.
Alliance are better at guerrilla warfare tactics because of their racials. The racials don’t make as much difference as you want to make them out to be.
I would have preferred to be a NE for shadow-meld but RL friends went horde.
But keep believing racials are such a defining factor. It’s a 1% difference overall.
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I’m not sure why anyone thought that pvp was going to be ultra-tuned to modern standards. Classic is what it is, a version of Vanilla WoW.
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maybe EMFHS would be a better racial.
I mean, if that’s the racial you want you have a few expansions to wait for it. But perception is strong.
It is extremely useful when used right.
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You are the perfect example of the delusion I am talking about.
Perception allows human rogues to get an opener on horde rogues, but that advantage is null if its an orc rogue who will more than likely resist the incoming stun.
Shadowmeld is great, but in this iteration where it doesn’t even stop pets from training you is quite underwhelming compared to WoTF, hardiness, even War Stomp.
It is much more than a 1% difference.
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I think many Alliance players delude themselves that they are “skilled” and anytime they lose it’s because of HUGE imbalances. It’s that inability to correctly deduce why they lose that prevents them from ever getting better or changing their failing tactics.
Playing Horde AV at this time period IS easy mode but it was NOT easy mode back when I mained Horde (back in Vanilla).
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I am not complaining about what Blizzard has given us, I am simply asking the horde population why they do not acknowledging the apparent advantages they have in PVP settings.
Shamans and Paladins aren’t even comparable in PVP. I’m aware that Paladins and Alliance racials give alliance a huge boost in PVE performance, but it seems like Horde players are reluctant to admit to the hefty advantages they have with racials and shamans in PVP.
Your looking at it from a 1v1 perspective and assuming the same classes.
Mage human vs rogue orc. Mage should win hands down
Your trying to put the human as the worst class combo for being vs an orc rogue. Purposely screwing the effectiveness of racials.
And it’s not a 1v1 only scenario. If a human rogue catches out an orc rogue he can sap open to reveal the rogue and him and his team kill him.
Lastly, stun resist drops dramatically when you are behind the target.
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I’m not going to do a breakdown and analyze every race/class combo vs another, that’s not the point of my thread. At the end of the day, the statistics don’t lie - horde PVPers dramatically favor races like Undead and Orc because of their racials. Shamans are capable of killing 2-3 players with 2 globals, while paladins cannot. I admit that Paladins make PVE content trivial, especially fights like Onyxia. But we have threads on the front page of the classic forums like " Sure are a lot of noob marshals" while horde players never acknowledge the advantages they have and how they contribute to issue of faction imbalance because they would rather not play than play without their stacked advantages.
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I’ve played both sides in PVP extensively. I rerolled an alliance specifically to see the other side and kept ranking because I like PVP.
For some reason I have yet to understand the horde queue times have gone down outside of AV - drastically. When I ranked in March/April horde had 15-35 minute WSG/AB queues. Now horde have instant queues often at the beginning of the week. I have heard from horde pug players and seen on horde streams that horde pugs do tend to face a lot of alliance premades. Although I’ve pugged a lot with my alliance and we tend to go up against horde premades so I guess that’s how it works - but not as often, about 50% of the games with my alliance pugs were against horde pugs who were probably really happy to be facing an alliance pug. This may be the honest reason for the queue time.
AV isn’t even really up for debate because we all know horde win that and this has been discussed many times.
Anyway back on the OP thing. Ele shammies have amazing burst and they are very good in many utility ways. Paladins have way better survivability and are better at things like spinning AB flags and being stand in (but very slow without certain items) flag carriers. Pallies are also considered the best healers for survivability as has been discussed here. Shammies though do have very good burst and it’s getting more obvious with the AQ gear.
My alliance is a warlock and it is a PITA to not be able to properly fear over half the horde because they are undead or warriors. So I will say that. You just adapt.
Allies can still and do win frequently although ally pugs give up a lot, especially in AB. Ally premades if they are using the same amount of consumes and engi items and are the same playing field are capable of beating horde premades -if they don’t decide to townhall or otherwise throw the game.
I do expect more people to PVP on horde in TBC.
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Escape artist, perception, shadowmeld, stoneform… ESPECIALLY STONEFORM are still some amazing PvP racials when used properly. Alliance are better balanced between the massive PVE advantage they have and PvP disadvantage they have.
Horde on the other hand have a massive PVE disadvantage and their PvP advantage is still vastly blown out of proportion because it’s not nearly as big as most Alliance players think.
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They know, it’s literally why a very large segment of the PvP population selected horde.
There are those players who picked horde because they love the look and style of the race and class they picked also. It’s for that reason that my horde rogue is undead even though orc is technically better for raids.
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Paladin is a better class and has greater potential than shaman, but shaman is 10x more effective in the hands of an average player because it’s so damn easy to to play in a competent way.
This actually makes shaman the better tool for the every man kinda player who you will see a lot more of in PvP.
In the hands of a great player the Paladin is preferable, but how many great players do you see in PvP? Not a lot.
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Paladins are not hard to play… like at all… in fact they are easier than Shaman at literally everything in the game lol.
Shamans are just better in solo queue or in less organized teams. Paladins need a good TEAM to shine as a PvP class, emphasis on the good team part.
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It seems like the only people that prefer paladins over shamans are either horde that never played ally or pallys that wanna defend their class.
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Do you know how many times I’ve been at 50% hp or less with a shaman around in a small scale pvp scenario where all I needed was ONE single lesser healing wave to survive the encounter and wipe the alliance, but instead he decides to PEW PEW and get one killing blow instead of getting two to three hk’s? It’s almost 100% of the time, even in premades that I’ve done. I pretty much don’t even consider shamans healers anymore especially if they’re enhance which is an absolute waste of a class.
Contrast that to the times I’ve faced paladins in small scale pvp where they throw out cleanses, BoP, heals, BoF, plus bubble themselves and wipe us. It’s not even close man. Paladins are superior to shamans especially because people don’t play shamans like healers and healers are what wins group pvp.
Shamans aren’t even the best healers on horde side, priests are in my opinion.
Alliance has the first and second best healers by class in the game, and the strongest version of the second best healers in the game (dwarf priests). Horde only have the second and third best healers.
Horde vs. Alliance, independent of map factors, is an even match provided equally skilled players, stop kidding yourself and us, too.
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ya imagin being an alliance rogue unable to keep the player stun locked 