I posted something about the pivot point in which Epidemic basically becomes obscene in terms of DPS however the issue in the current game state there isn’t any real points in which you are at the pivot point. Basically there is around maybe 10% in terms of cases where you get the big jump and I know most DK’s will know it’s essentially when there is 16 or greater mobs/players in combat and the greater the number above this the higher the DPS damage spread becomes.
The problem now however is the changes that have been made to Divine Storm for Paladins as this has a much greater and quicker ramp rate then Epidemic. The key reason for this is the combination between the Paladins level 60 Talent Divine Judgement, the Use of Divine Storm and lastly the Azerite Trait -[Empyrean Power].
Basically to sum this up Divine Storm hits all targets in radius around the Paladin of 8 yards and for each target hit by Divine Storm the talent Divine Judgement increases the Holy Damage the Paladin is doing against each target hit by 20% per application stacking 15 times… So if a Paladin does 5 divine storms in 30 seconds which is plausible that 100% extra damage 10 in 60 seconds 200% you get the idea. Now with the Azerite trait which doesn’t stack however, it gives their Divine Storm ability make the next Divine Storm free and increase the damage to each target by a numeric value [ilvl 400 + 2810 to each target]. What is important to understand is that the each time they hit a target it has a chance to activate the free application and the ability Divine storm is included as well. So consider a Paladin might get a chain of 3 + 4 free Divine Storms that’s 140% extra damage they are doing to ALL targets in 8 yards.
They have been handed a golden slipper in terms of the symmetry between a talent, an ability and finally the Azerite trait. However this can’t be said for the Unholy DK the ones that originally worked well and actually did look promising where lobotomized by Blizzard to the point of being useless. We still have Azerite traits now that are Stupidly unimaginative and so severely lacking any good bonus when compared to other classes Azerite traits. The Talent tree is just as Bad for Unholy as well they tried to fix it then fix it again but they never actually fixed the Talents or made them something that had the promise and Symmetry that we see with Ret now.
The key point here is that Unholy needs changes across the board to make it work talents need massive changes and addressing Azerite traits need to really have some level of symmetry and drive which gives the Unholy DK a huge lift.
I would like to see Epidemic be a wandering plague which spreads to all targets in 8 yard radius of the DK. It then spreads from their outwards infecting all targets in 8 yards of those targets who do not have the plague up to a range of 30 yards. However, it doesn’t affect units which are not in active combat in instances etc. to prevent pulling extra stuff. In PvP it spreads no matter what to all players in 30 yards. This plague is simple - for each target affected by Wandering Plague the DK does an extra 20% Damage with all abilities, this provides the DK with a ramp up quickly for damage in AoE situations. Remove the wounds mechanics completely from the AoE as well and make it a mechanic for Single Target fights.
In terms of the Wound mechanic it should NEVER be a debuff on the target it should be a BUFF on the the DK which is per application of a Wound the DK does X% extra damage to the target for Death Coil, Death and Decay, and Festering Strike, Necrotic Strike etc. each has a chance to make their next Scourge Strike or Clawing Shadow cost nothing and do 200% more damage (Change current Death Coil talent to double that to 400% when you pet is affected by Dark Transformation)… You get the point.
Well, as much as i Agree with how fast Ret Paladins ramp up in damage, i would like to point out Wake of Ashes is generally the stronger talent to pick in the lvl 60 row and Divine Judgement is rarely picked. Also Divine Judgement, though it synergizes well with Divine Storm, it is a single target ability with a cap.
Please note Unholy DK has a much higher appearance over Ret Paladins in the MDI, and this year the teams are almost purely focused on AOE dps.
Well to be fair, UH has the potential for ridiculous AoE damage, but it does require a group that’s willing to risk the pulls that would make it work and in something like the MDI you have very coordinated groups of skilled players.
Most DKs aren’t going to have the setup to pull off the ridiculous numbers seen in MDI, which drops their AoE value, more frequent, smaller safer pulls as opposed to giant pulls.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying UH is useless in normal PuG dungeons etc, but using the MDI has an example probably isn’t the best way to look at their overall value.
You know what I hear when people say this?
“It’s only alpha, it’ll change.”
“It’s only beta, it’ll change.”
“It’s only a week before release, it’ll change.”
“It’s only the first month of live, it’ll change.”
“It’s only the first tier, it’ll change.”
“It’s only the middle of the expansion, it’ll change.”
This is prime opportunity for us to voice our concerns, when they’re making changes once every blue moon.
Yep, right on the money. Blood and Unholy do extremely well. I know I would take a Blood for any key I can do which I believe my high is a +13. I have also had the pleasure of seeing some Unholy DKs killing the meters. DK overall is in a better spot then other classes.
Obviously many people point and the MDI and go look X class is performing well. You are not considering a simple fact that these groups have full specific itemized gear of their choice at a certain ilvl across the board. So they can pick and choose the best itemization, azerite choices and talents to maximise their overall strategies and harmonize as a group in the instances.
As a normal player generally speaking you ‘WONT GET THIS BREAKDOWN’
You need to refer to parses for across the server clusters for Mythic+ breakdown over 4 - 5 weeks to see the progression and changes to classes in terms of which are having issues and which are not.
In term of keys up to maybe a 15 or for the really geared one 18 is fine for a Blood DK with the right group as it stands now and obviously any keys under that. However where you see the differences is in the Instances of Prot Warriors in keys above 13 by comparison. Right now groups doing an 18+ are pretty much running exclusively Prot Warriors because of the Extortionate amount of AoE damage they are doing along with the fact they require very little if at all healing. This increases the groups DPS as well then because the healing is pulling large DPS numbers and when you factor in the Reaping element it’s a Joke at the higher levels for Prot Warriors. All other tanks including Blood DK really have to work hard to hold threat, not die and do lackluster damage that is like a sixth of the Damage a normal DPS is doing and one 20th of that of a Prot Warrior. They are also pulling significantly less mobs because of it which slows the runs down and makes them logger technically.
Hence Warrior is the Supreme tank for any keep of 13+
In terms of DPS you will see the following - Rogues, DemonHunters, Warlocks, Monks, Boomkins. These are basically the core we want these classes and only take any other class if we can’t get one of these when you are attempting higher keys. That’s the issue it is now as many have said BRING THE CLASS not the player and is effectively locking many players out of content because unless they have a group of friends that is willing to do it with them, they are left in the LFG group for stupid amount of time compared to the core DPS classes.
It’s either Rogues, DH, Monks and Warlocks needs to have a 100 Tonne truck hit them in the face with reductions and nerfs in the back or every other class in the game needs a significant boost to align with their stupid numbers. It’s okay when it’s 3% - 8% variance in DPS but when its 10% - 30% - 50% there is an major Discombobulation in terms of class balance and game design
UH DK is the strongest melee PvP spec, so I will leave that alone.
In Mythic +, unholy has the highest aoe potential, great self heals, a BR, magic and physical damage mitigation, etc. Guilds pushing high keys have UH DKs on their roster (Outlaw Rogue is the only better class/spec and that’s for stealth).
DKs are not doing as well in raiding. Blood is fine. UH is middle to bottom of the pack (outside of Opulence). But, they are not being turned away. They just aren’t top tier.
That said, Frost is another issue altogether. It sucks and needs a serious buff.
I’ve held off going unholy for PVE, but good lord Frost has been awful especially since BoD came out. I’m usually the last person to complain but even I’ve had it. Maybe I’ll try unholy but lately just not playing has been preferable.
Spec shouldnt be balanced in pve because of how “good” they are in pvp, and we were bottom tier in pvp last season.
We’re not brought into anything higher than a 14, and we have the highest aoe burst potential but sustained we’re lacking. Again, bottom tier the previous M+ season.
Again, we’re bottom tier in all 3 raids this expansion.
Frost was top tier in Uldir only because the fights fit it, and they’re the first ones to get changes before UH while they’re already doing better than uh in the raid? Disgusting.
Welcome Back Krissignacia I know you haven’t forgotten the moto Blizzard has for DK… ‘Suffer Well’
You can also look at the Discombobulation that is the talent tree for all three spec’s and realize there is no synergy or actual design topology in terms of interactions with the class… Our Supposed movement teir has 1 Movement Ability option and that’s it the others are nothing whatsoever to do with movement generally unless you add the 1 snare effect that unholy gets or the options to take a reduced cooldown for Gorefiends for the Blood DK as movement options.
Then we have the top tier talents which are basically All Players will take option A because Option B and C is so terrible in terms of mechanics, class synergy and scaling that you have no other choice…
Things have been going swimmingly well for the class honestly what can we say but we like being the lowest ranked Melee DPS class overall and the classes that brings nothing beneficial to raids in terms of an actual buff but it seems that all other classes have our abilities or better now so why bring the DK