I know, a billion times…but I just actually have a question.
Why? Why are the different DK specs locked into one or the other, but then frost gets freedom?
At face, it seems like playing favouritism because if they can make the damage work on Frost, then why not Blood and Unholy? Not a complaint, I just can’t seem to find any reasons given behind the restrictions.
I made this character back in wrath and then stopped playing in like legion or something. I made a new dk on a different server and have picked frost spec for the first time since wrath. And I find out that they can pick to either dual wield weapons, or use a 2fer.
Why? How is their damage any different from Blood and Unholy (sure blood vs unholy vs frost smart aleks lol i know) and why can’t the same thing be done to the other specs.
Again, I am asking about…the game design choice? The logic? Does anybody know, or is it just “because mneah”? I really don’t know and am genuinely curious.
Its what the people wanted.
And now its a dumpster fire.
Its also only an illusion of choice as youre not gonna really DW gor Oblit builds and 2h BoS build is horrible.
Frost is meant to DW. Just leave it at that and hope they fix it for TWW.
Also theres about 4 million of these threads in the appropriate class forums.
none of them really explain why. They just give vague reasons and start stating their opinion instead of answering the question.
Yet I haven’t met a single DK that didn’t want to have Unholy also be able to Dual Wield as well as Blood DKs lol.
But your answer gives me the actual answer, which is that it is indeed just “because”. Imma have to go advocate for this change. See what people think about being able to just have the choice of dual wielding.
I don’t like that, but it is a good solution to the problem I think.
Not sure if I want to actually have two weapons, or just the visual. Good thinking bro.
Someone in another thread said it would be better to have the two setups have different playstyles (like Frost has with two-handed Obliteration and dual-wielding Breath of Sindragosa) but the easier option is to just let players decide visually as well as picking the playstyle they prefer.
It’s what blizzard wanted at first, I don’t think tossing DW out for the class was on anyone’s wishlist prior to the change. Blizzard did it because it’s easier to balance. The players did not ask for removal, just that they deliver on that big chunky anti caster thematic they marketed dk as. There was a lot of outcry for big chunky oblit hits, but it wasn’t until some BFA powers propped us up and later until SL S3 tier set (and NF covenant cleave) that oblit was viable. It took a tier set firing off a free aoe talent and a covenant allowing us to cleave to allow us to compete in m+ that season…
2h/DW frost was eventually brought back because the players wanted it, and there was a lot of forum requests for it. 2h lagged behind for a very long time before oblit finally started catching up and eclipsing it.
Blizzard has made few changes to DK in years, and it’s starting to show. The dps specs are pretty cumbersome. Abilities desync easily, some CDs feel horrendous on the GCD, pet behavior, etc etc. lots of bugs to sort out…
At this point I’d wish they just make it an aesthetic choice and break off the talents. Same for fury warrior…
Anyway, the players didn’t ask for the removal of DW to the other specs. That was blizzard doing blizzard things. At least not en masse.
It’s not “just because” - it’s dev’s giving players what they wanted. And it’s turned into an entire cluster. And one that should be remedied by taking away 2h from Frost and making it the only DW of the 3
Yoooou!
Thanks. This is exactly the answer I needed as well. More detailed than the other one.
And I fully agree with your idea, and that other dude. Even just having transmog restrictions changed would be more than enough.
Reworking is a lot of work (heh) but I think the transmog option would just be the easiest for them to execute and would appease both sides.
It’s not just as simple as taking 2h away from frost, but the spec gimmicks feel awful. Chill streak starts bouncing towards something a Pld blows up? There goes my set bonus.
Mechanic pushes me out of dnd, or tank is just pulling stuff all over the map? There goes my cleave.
Mechanic pushes me out of melee when I’m running BoS or I made a poor RP choice 30 sec ago? There goes my burst window.
Etc etc. I’m not saying the players were right or wrong, we asked for a resonant theme we found fun. We gave them feedback of what we thought would be fun. They delivered the numbers and mechanics that make it miserable to play. Let’s place blame where it belongs…
You just described bad play and want to blame blizzard for your own mistakes?
The problem that is obliterate build is entirely players fault though. You cant deny that. Everyone who wanted to revovle around big Oblit hits got what they wanted. Now the playstyle is degenerate and a hot mess
Because frost was intended to be DW from day 1 but was always viable as 2H. The other specs were intended to be 2h from day 1. Back in Wrath you COULD DW as UH but it was never the intention.
Yes, because sandbagging chill streak because a flower in everbloom may die and chill streak may randomly bounce to that dude way tf over there is good play. that’s a dev issue not a git gud issue.
Blizzard is in control of the implementation and they botched it.
I’m all for not letting whiny players off the hook (I’ve posted in multiple deleted plunderstorm threads lol), but we never told blizzard we wanted to squat in DnD or have frostscythe gather dust for 6 years.
But on topic, blood dks and unholy dks didn’t really ask for DW to be removed. It was a blizzard decision for whatever reason. I speculated balance, but it could have been loot tables, class resonance, whatever. Doesn’t really matter, we don’t see windwalkers complaining about DW vs 2H aside from seasons with proc items or enchant PPM. There is some discussion sure, but much bigger fish to fry rn (like ToD).
DW vs 2h is also problematic when you end up chasing vault rewards weeks 1-3. Grabbing a 1h may be better if DW tuning is better, but that offhand may come very late. Grabbing an early 2h could be a great early season boost, but a dead item mid to late season. Compare to a mage, where the choice between a MH/OffH and a staff is Ilvl and stat driven (occasionally proc). For DK it’s talent and playstyle driven for frost.
Being able to pick between Dual Wield and 2hander has actually been a curse for Frost DK, because blizz has been trying to balance it around the two different types and balance the two different playstyles around the two weapon types, the spec is suffering greatly right now. As much as I enjoy having the option, which its not really an option tbf, Frost just needs to go back to being Dual Wield only.
Firing off chillsteak at the end of a pull instead of saving it for the beginning of the next pull is indeed, bad play.
Players never really cared for Frostscythe but i do wish they’d fix it and bring it back as an AoE builder.
But players wanted big Oblits. And the DnD cleave while a little clunky on its implementation (i dont mind it), the “big numbers” had mostly positive feedback in SL with it. Thus it being carried over. Again, issue being what the players wanted. DK forums is littered with people doubling down on the bad aspect of the build instead of trying to fix it. Like the entire debacle of letting Killing Machine stack twice.
Because theybdont have talents based on weapon swings which dictate a kotnod throughput. Entirely different worlds.
that’s a dev issue not a git gud issue.