How much it affects how you play. Not having an interrupt is one thing. It doesnt affect everything we do. Rune regeneration massively increases the number of abilities we use per encounter. Without rune regeneration the class feels abysmally slow.
Allowing some bad choices to occur is fine. Not having an interrupt CAN be a big deal. But a large portion of the time it isnt. Not having rune regeneration literally affects 100% of how a DK plays/feels.
I agree it does make the class feel slow, because it is slow without it and it wont take long for people to actually see how important it is and they will pick it up. Learning by failing is perfectly fine.
Will have to agree to disagree. Allowing ppl to fail something as large as Rune regeneration is not healthy overall.
If they learn from their mistakes it isnt healthy? That doesnt make any sense to me, not learning from your mistakes would be unhealthy to me.
Learning is fine. But its the degree of the mistake being made. Forgetting to spec an interrupt is easy for anyone to notice. No knowledge of DK required. Having terrible dps because you didnt take rune regen is not so easy for non-DKs to notice. And a new player may not know about class discords or sources of information to get answers they need.
I get that all of us posting here have likely been playing for many years. But there are new players each expac. Giving them pitfalls this large in class talent trees just isnt a good way to retain players.
it all depends on what you give up. If you are giving up rune regeneration for a large extra % of throughput then that could be a balanced choice. If its something that the class just cant function at all without then its no longer a choice, which is bad for a talent. I havent played without RE because its currently baked in, so cant comment on what its like without it. Would be interesting to see in action, because maybe an extra 20% dmg would be worth a few less runes. Maybe the talents you get for giving up RE/RC need to be buffed to make that a more appealing option. All of this needs loads of testing.
This used to be a great part of the game. When you start playing you have no idea what you are doing. Just having fun pressing abilities and getting new spells/talents. As you get further through the game you start learning from other players or outside sources how to better execute your rotation and spec and I remember having a great feeling of personal progression from that.
remember that every talent point spent should be an upgrade, so there are no negative choices, only more optimal choices.
There is Frigid Executioner but its only 10% chance to refund 2 runes when you use Obliterate. Murderous Efficiency as well right below that for frost. There is also Invigorating Freeze which increases the chance Frost Fever will grant RP when it crits.
If these would be enough to carry resources without RE I dont know. We cant play without it, and we really couldnt play without it when it was a talent before unless you just skipped that talent row entirely and didnt choose any of them.
I actually like these types of talent systems because of of the reasons you listed. You run into someone that is doing more damage and it sparks conversation. These new talent systems dont do that, especially when you just go read a guide pick them and never look back.
This system has room for not picking something when you dont need it or picking something when you do. Mostly it depends on balance though. If something is strong in any scenario its going to be picked which leads to less options and fewer talent points to put where you would want them.
We know this wont be the case 100%.
Other than the 2h frost talent, I dont see any talents that are a DPS loss for picking up?
The 3 talents in front of Abom Limb would be a loss compared to the talents infront of Soul Reaper and Empowered Rune Weapon.
I think you miss read what I said.
Those talents before abom limb arent a dps loss, as in your dps going down from taking them, its just more optimal (or more of a dps upgrade) to take other talents over them.
Every point spent is adding to your throughput/utility, nothing (other than 2h frost) is taking away throughput or utility.
Hence…
Speaking as an Unholy DK, talent tree should be used to IMPROVE our abilities, not reacquire them.
It should be used to make ST or AoE builds. I should be deciding how hard I want Festering Strike to hit, not if I want Epidemic.
I should be deciding how much damage my pets do versus how much I do, not if I have a pet full time.
I should be deciding if my Dark Transformation hits from ranged or melee, not if I get Dark Transformation.
I’m not asking to be able to use all of the last talent row abilities, trust me. But I don’t want to walk into Dragonflight with less buttons and abilities than I have now.
I quit for 22 months because of that horrible pruning in WoD, don’t make me quit again because of pruning.
Please reconsider what is and isn’t baseline and the choices we need to make in the talent trees. The way it looks right now, I’d rather just stick to what we have live in SL.
You dont need Epidemic all the time so why pick it up if you dont need it and can put that talent point somewhere else?
You also dont get to choose if you have a full time pet or not. You will have a full time pet… period. You cant get around it.
Once you start taking out all the stuff you think should just be baseline, you are left with what we have now.
This is a better talent system than we have now.
Things that are baseline with this system are abilities that are shared between all the specs.
Thanks for the LFR perspective Kelliste. Go ahead and let people that are well versed in DK hash this out.
Oh quit trolling. You arent the gatekeeper for who can speak about this system.
But thanks for a commercial on authoritarianism, sadly im not interested.
You don’t play and have never played DK at a competent level. You have no voice here.
Yeah, you can do WQs with any talents, none of this topic concerns you.
Yet I still know more than most people about DK. More reason to listen to me than people who claim they are gods all while complaining about every little thing in existence.
You don’t. Period.
No reason to listen to you. Again, you don’t have a history of doing anything with any character, let alone DK. No one cares about the perspective of a WQ player.
Like I care what a forum troll says about me. You didnt even respond to what I said and went off on some authoritarian tangent like you have been doing trying to act as a gate keeper.
I don’t need to address your points, you are not worth even having a serious discussion about this with.
I consider the guy that LARPs as a DK and authority on WQ matters to be the troll.