I was about to post this exact senitment. For the 1300312031 threads about this topic they said they wanted it back even if its sub optimal… and its not even in the actual game yet and people are already complaining if its not on par with DW.
No ones complaining, were giving ideas to an alpha build on how to improve the game for both setups. Is that not what the alpha is for? As I have always said, as long as 2h is within reasonable range of DW +/- 5% or so, I am happy.
My main will be a 2h Frost regardless.
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The entire point was that they didnt care, but they do if they are even giving ideas to bring both of them in line.
If they didnt care there wouldnt be a single “I hope 2h is on par with DW” post anywhere. But I called it long ago, lift weapon restrictions and then people are going to complain about an imbalance because DW just flat out has more going for it.
Its trading 1 set of complaints for another. While we dont know the dps difference and shouldnt look at it right now, its about design at this point, people are at least concerned.
The question is why? Ive seen some that have said I dont care, and then now they do care… so why?
as long as 2h gets fatty obliterate crits I’ll be happy. giant spike damage as a lumbering frostyboi is why people loved 2h frost.
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Agreed. Atleast DKs now have some decent raid utility with the AMZ, so there would be a reason to bring them other than pure DPS concerns.
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They resolve the balancing issues the same way they do now: with % Aura hotfixes. If 2h is ahead by 10%+, they can issue a hotfix with the rest of tuning to buff DW damage to make them equal. It could either be an aura or an added passive like Might of the Frozen Waste. And if DW is better, than the reverse can be done.
And from your other posts in various threads, it’s Alpha. That’s the time to speak up and ask for changes. If 2h is 8% under because it can’t utilize 2 forges, then we ask for a 2 forge option or a passive (like Might) that can automatically apply Razorice when using a 2h.
And the entire “We want 2h Frost!” was heavily about it being cosmetic. There were a few that wanted big Obliterate numbers but that’s not happening for obvious reasons. The DW and 2h play style will be generally the same, barring whatever talents they take.
On the other side, I find your posts to be quite disingenuous. Shadowlands didn’t change ability damage, BFA did. BFA changed just about every Melee DPS to Attack Power from weapon damage; if you look at WoWhead or BFA Alpha/Beta notes, you’ll notice that these changes were made years ago. The only Shadowlands change is going from, say “60% Attack Power + 60% Attack Power” to “X% Attack Power / Y or Z% Attack Power + Z% Attack Power”. That’s been done for Frost and Windwalker.
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I don’t think the people saying that they don’t care if it’s balanced are necessarily the same people who are listing ideas on improving the balance. There’s an awful lot of people who were asking for 2H to return, and you yourself even stated that they fell into a few different camps.
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By this logic, artifacts being gone in BFA means Monks should be free to DW or 2h. Enhancement should be able to do the same. Fury should be able to use 1hs or 2hs. I can go on, but this type of logic is disingenuous, like most of the things you’re posting. I can go through the 2h Frost threads and cherry pick people saying “We just want cosmetics!” more than I can “We want 2h Frost with big Oblits”, and then what? Use that to prove that this is a nightmare to balance? If Balance is so difficult, then why bother even adding new things?
And to answer another question of yours, if the playstyles are exactly the same, why does weapon type need to be restricted? Why is player choice for your character’s appearance a bad thing, especially when Blizzard has shown time and time again throughout Legion and BFA that they can hotfix damage to keep it within 5% (barring obscenities like corruption)?
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You’ve done nothing but dodge my question every single time. It’s rather annoying.
I hope they do the following three things to balance 2H and DW:
Allow 2H to have 2 runeforges.
Switch KM to be on regular autos instead of crits.
Increase RP gain from RA and decrease RPPM so that isn’t an issue either.
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He/She is intentionally dodging questions because they are trying to achieve a situation where they salvage what little credibility they had by pointing to Blizzard not doing anything to 2H frost so they can say “Ah ha, told you so!”.
I don’t even know at this point why anyone engages with Kelliste. They haven’t ever seriously played DK or even casually played DK.
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Hard disagree. I feel like scrolling through the main 2h thread now and counting out all the people that wanted it back for the obliterate damage aka big crits aka 2h’s gameplay. After MoP and WoD made 2h more distinct it’s what it became known for.
From what i’m seeing already, people who asked for a cosmetic option get much less likes than people who reply to that saying they actually want the harder hitting oblits. If only someone made a poll during all this.
The biggest thing I worry about with Blizzard adding in a 2h option to frost is that one or the other will be wildly more powerful and possibly OP, causing an overall nerf to frost making it a sub par spec regardless of what weapons you use.
Otherwise I’m pretty excited about 2h oblit crits again. 2h Frost was always my favorite spec.
Also, how will transmog for legion legendaries work? Will we be able to still use legion legendary transmog on a 2h just in case we want to rock some of those transmogs?
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So create another aura on top on the frost aura… sounds like a mess too.
No, I haven’t, you were just looking for a specific answer and didn’t like the one I gave.
And again, to be able to allow for 2 runeforges the enchanting slots might have to be altered opening up 2 slots per 2h weapon. They have already created new runeforges so combining 2 together is the better option.
Looks like I have been correct on multiple things actually. I haven’t avoided questions at all either.
Im happy to have 2H back also but the spec itself still feels like its missing something. its a 3 button spec with cooldowns and Breath still looks like the best build. im hoping obliteration becomes viable but that even further pushes the spec to only hit 2 buttons most of the time. I know people like the spec but to me it needs a redesign it feels really boring compared to UH and Blood
How are you thinking here?
They can’t remove DW, is the problem, because the Legion artifact assets would be completely wasted, as well as the new DK starter weapons they designed.
What they need to do is make 2H basically a cosmetic option. Combine the autoattack damage from DW into a combined interval for 2H and let the abilities be the same.
The other pain point is it would make DW obsolete if both are equal.
These idiots abandoned the Legion progression where DW classes were not penalized in gearing when DW slots were combined into one, reverted in BFA.
It means that if both options do the same DPS, yet gearing up a 2H is much easier, why bother with DW.
It’s precisely why I opted for unholy and away from DH/frost/enhancement shaman.
Nothing more aggravating than waiting over a month for a weapons cache that only fills half your slot, and the same applies to waiting for the day the M+ cache stops giving you rings for the third week in a row and boots/pants/gloves for the other 2 weeks and finally drops a weapon after 3 months. Cool, so now as DW you wait another 2-3 months for a weapon on the second slot.
DW design is terrible design.
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As much as I hate DW, I do agree they should just make it so that one 1hander (a weapon specially designed for DW specs) equals 2 weapons for the purposes of DW. Having to find 2 weapons is just dumb.
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The obvious answer to me is to build the spec around two handers. Blizzard already acknowledged that Arthas, with Frostmourne, was frost’s class fantasy. Allow Frost DK to keep dual wielding, but stop building the spec to revolve around it.
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