Are you saying that if their intention with the removal wasn’t a balance issue, we shouldn’t now give feedback to make it balanced?
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Then your wording wasnt that great. If we are trying to find the intent behind Blizzards action of removing 2h, how do you think you would go about doing it? Ignoring them removing hyrbid specs? Ignoring that they said they wanted easier balance?
WoD had a split in the playstyle, it was a nightmare to balance. They wanted an easier time of balancing, removed 2h instead of addressing the differences between the 2 weapon sets, continued to keep it focused on DW even though the Artifact Weapons no longer had any significant impact on the game.
No. Im saying that it wasnt the Artifact weapon that removed 2h.
Hmm, I said it all in my paragraph. I’m definitely happy for health conversation, but you ignoring or misunderstanding my entire paragraph of points that addresses EXACTLY what you’re saying, then this isn’t really going to get anywhere. That’s not enjoyable for me.
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Back to the question, I’m wondering why you think their intention actually matters. Why does their 4-year old decision on the removal of 2H matter now in any context? I’m not asking you why you think 2H was removed, I’m wondering why you think the intention matters.
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If you are or were saying the same things I was, then why say I was going about it wrong? Sorry, but I just dont understand what in the world you are saying.
Was it removed because of balance reasons or because of Azerite weapons?
Then why bring up the subject at all? If it ultimately doesnt matter with Shadowlands Alpha and moving forward then what does it matter?
Thats what your saying right?
Also, some people have said that balance doesnt matter.
I’m just responding to you talking a lot about their intentions. I’m questioning the relevance of discussing their intention back in the day.
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Okay, I’ll try again, and try and remove any possible ambiguity.
I believe that when you say sentences such as “What does a weapon choice matter if the spec plays the same?” you are thinking about how /you/ would design the game, not how /blizzard/ would.
Their design philosophy through legion was clearly to remove all possible confusion, no matter how small. They removed niche abilities that had no reason being removed, to streamline the game. They did this with abilities, talents, niche mechanics, and finally, it seems like, weapons.
In the way that, if every spec has exactly one guaranteed weapon type at max level, it seems like their logical course of action is to simply make that the weapon each spec can use as they level up.
When you argue against “well, why would they do that? they don’t need to!!” it just seems like you’re ignoring that philosophy.
I tried to remove absolutely all possibly ambiguity and this taking up a lot of time, so I don’t really wish to have any more back and forth if this doesn’t make sense as well.
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No, im not thinking about how I would design the game over Blizzard. I am wondering exactly what the question is. If the playstyle doesnt change, what does the weapon choice matter. Does it magically change because you now have 2 weapons instead of 1? If 2h was added back right now would anything change? Ability damage is near identical so that wouldnt be an issue.
Blizzard has a history of making it easier on themselves. The removal of hybrid specs so they didnt have to try to balance those, hybrid meaning like half blood half frost. They also removed the ability for specs to fill both roles of tank and dps. They have also stated that they just want to turn some knobs for balance and be done with it.
Things happening at the same time means absolutely nothing.
lord this thread has been busy.
This is what’s hyping me the most about Shadowlands, it finally seems like they’ve truly realized that non-stop pruning has been a terrible thing and now it looks like they’re trying to rectify it.
So far Blizzard is looking way better and it’s so incredibly refreshing. Can’t wait to feel like a real Death Knight again.
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Oh shouldn’t have said that! Now Kelliste is going to clapback with how “Real DKs like Arthas were unholy and not Frost, because Frostmourne isn’t a frost weapon.” 
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Would love to get an answer still. I’m slightly annoyed with these discussions just going in circles talking about stuff that actually aren’t important or significant.
Maybe I’m in the wrong thread then. Last I checked it started as a celebration for 2H Frost coming back.
I mean no disrespect to anyone personally, I am merely stating my personal opinion, but I feel some people simply have his/her opinions, despite some of those being based on begging the question logic/circular logic, and refuse to be moved off her/his opinions, despite evidence to the contrary.
It sure didn’t take long for the BAAAAALAAAANCE NIIIIGHTMAAAARE stuff to come out.
As mentioned, even specs with no balance issues had their alternate weapons removed. Every spec got one artifact weapon. Death knights had been able to DW since they were introduced to the game, so they wanted to keep a DW spec in the game. The only DK spec that was able to make reasonable use of DW consistently was Frost, so they picked Frost to have the token DW artifact.
Remember, removing 2H Frost could not have been because it was a “balance nightmare” unless WW monk was ALSO a “balance nightmare”. Also, the term “balance nightmare” sounds terrible and is massive hyperbole.
Anyways, even if literally all they do for 2H frost is make it so all the buttons work again I’m still going to play it.
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Same. And it will still be my main.
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Would love to get an answer to mine as well.
How do you balance a split in the spec, without touching the focus ability of either sub spec and without buffing or nerfing the other sub spec?
Make both sets work off the same ability in nearly the same way.
I.E. Make Obl frost dmg and normalize the proc rates of other passives.
Edit: Before you respond with a giant block of text, why don’t you answer the man’s original question?
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Was talking more about WoD balance and how there is and was no good way to balance it. You can’t just keep pumping damage into obliterate for 2h, can’t increase frost strike because that buffs up DW, can’t really buff and frost damage since it’s another buff to DW.
I’m sure everyone can see the problem, it’s the same in reverse. Say 2h was in a good spot but DW needed to be buffed, you can’t funnel everything into frost strike and all other abilities being buffed is a direct buff to 2h as well.
Artifacts being released at the same time as them giving the axe to 2h doesn’t mean they are linked in any way.
It’s not important going into shadowlands other than if you know that’s the reason why 2h was removed, the balance, then you don’t repeat it.