It doesn’t. The moment the implementation was announced, the reason for the removal became completely irrelevant. I mean, the reasoning was irrelevant since the removal first happened, because it was not justified anyway. Anybody arguing that it is relevant is just creating a straw man.
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Already told you, for information and feedback. If it was removed due to balance reasons then you don’t repeat that same scenario and not split the spec.
If it was balance reasons, which Blizzards actions throughout history and working towards having an easier time of balance points in that direction, then would you come up with an idea that splits the spec yet again? People are still suggesting it instead of actually addressing the issues that has been a problem for 2h since Wrath.
blizz should remove kelliste for balance reasons
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If obliteration just gave a permanent passive increase to obliterate/frostscythe damage it would solve two things.
- It could be competitive pick if the damage increase was tuned properly.
- It would bring back 2h’s gameplay as an option for those who want it.
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2H was removed in Legion, an expansion that was focused on a single weapon for each class. Other classes/specs saw the same restrictions introduced for the same reason.
That may not have been the only reason, but we will never know otherwise. Nor does it matter.
They can make it work for however they want it to play out. I think once we see what direction they want to take 2H (keep it exactly the same, or have it play differently than DW), then we can help give feedback on how best to balance it.
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The problem with pointing at Artifact Weapon being the reason all these things were removed is that the Artifact Weapon in itself would take care of the removal, there is no need to actually lock abilities out from the spec if the only option is that weapon.
Not to mention some things were removed where the weapon didnt matter. Granted Demo was changed entirely because of DH. But what about Gladiator Stance? It was introduced in WoD, and removed in Legion… why was it removed? The Artifact Weapon when it shares a weapon set with prot so it couldnt have been that. Or is it because it was just a pain to balance it and it never really went anywhere in the first place? They even nerfed it in a hotfix about 3 months into its existence. Why did they nerf it? Truthfully I dont know, but I remember reading that glad stance just wasnt worth it. You were stuck in that stance and it just wasnt as good as either fury or arms. And then it was removed in Legion.
Just because 2 things happened at or around the same time doesnt mean that they were connected in any way. In fact they could have seen it as the perfect time to do Artifact weapons because the balance issues were removed.
And what if they dont do anything to 2h and then say “we didnt get any feedback on 2h so we left it as is”. Has no one learned anything about Blizzard? I mean didnt people have to make a big issue that it was removed for 4 years to just get the weapon restrictions lifted and now people should just sit on their hands… I dont get it, at all.
I would love for a chunkier 2H playstyle to work, I would hope that could be in the cards for frost.
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The more cynical side of me would say they just didnt want to pay to update both 2h frost and 1h frost attack animations. Legion introduced a massive overhaul to attack animations and its likely this is why it didnt return in BFA, despite us not being locked to our artifact weapon.
on the alpha right now you can see the attacks 2h uses are still the 1h ones.
They couldn’t have used any of the other 2h animations to save even more money if that was the case?
Ez fix just bring back racial animations. A lot of them looked better anyways.
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Hey guys I’m new to posting on forums, I couldn’t find a place to put this so if you guys think it’s a good idea feel free to forward it to the proper place. So I recently been watching overviews for Frost Deathknight for Shadowlands. I seen death and decay came back but it doesn’t fit very well, so I had an idea so here goes…
Replace Death and Decay with Hungering Cold. Hungering cold would be placed down just like death and decay but deal frost damage (so it scales with mastery) but also applies razor ice stacks for ever tick of damage an enemy takes from it. Maybe make a talent or passive interaction that remorseless winter damage can cause the next Hungering Cold to not cost a rune (like blood dk’s).
I thought this would not only fit in well but keep the class Fantasy that is a frost dk. Thank you!
DnD has probably been made baseline because the covenant ability ‘Deaths Due’ replaces DnD in all specs, therefore it’s probably not worth putting too much focus on DnD.
That being said, a glyph to turn the colour/particle effect to suit the spec could be nice.
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Night fae covenant makes dnd give str, and I don’t think they want it to scale with mastery. They are I guess you can say testing the waters of making things feel like a death knight overall, instead of a spec being it’s own class in a way.
You were a dk before you were a frost dk.
2h FROST DK FTW, stack that juicy mastery+ oblitiration talent & killing efficeny then just Chomp chomp
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Psst, DW would do that better.
Currently yes. Everyone agrees they need to make 2h frost as viable as dw
Then frost needs a rework. Mechanics aren’t going to magically be fixed by some numbers tweaking.
Indeed. Frost needs to be reconstructed like Enhancement was. Easy fix would be bring back MOTFW, remove DW ability to proc KM on off-hand attacks, double runeforges for 2H and completely reworking the talent rows. I’m not against Breath and I would like to see it made into something better or at least baseline since it will always win. Love Obliteration and would request buffing it.
Also, combining PoF and ERW would be mint.
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Why do you need MotFW which was the attempt to band-aid the mechanic disparity when you are also fixing the mechanic disparity?
And what I mean by rework, I mean a complete redesign. The reason I say that is because the offhand weapon proccing things is an intended mechanic. If they don’t do any redesign then a DW nerf would be needed, entirely. But would the nerf feel good to the spec without compensation because some people want to nerf themselves? No it wouldn’t.
The thing is, SL is releasing this year and we still have to have a beta test. Time is running out in getting things in place in terms of spec/class design. They still have to implement soulbinds, conduits and legendaries.
If you also look at the changes they were making to classes and specs are the ones that had major glaring issues in BFA. Frost doesn’t have major issues, just some things that people don’t like. 2h had major glaring issues, but that’s kind of community created because “wah, I don’t like these toothpicks”. They were warned, didn’t want to listen, and then reality hit.
Nostalgia/something unique to add to Frost. I was also looking at what Blizzard did for SMF vs Titan’s Grip. I like that different weapons add special effects. Reference.
Personally, I want huge crits again and it would be cool if a 2H increased your crit damage or overall physical damage. I think for DW they should try to reduce the off-hand penalty to damage while also increasing the chance to hit with your off-hand. I think these changes would be interesting but might be a balancing nightmare. The kind of thing that Blizzard loves.
I know, I want that too. Unfortunately, Blizzard is wasting time on Covenant ability balancing so it might not happen :/. I was suggesting a way for the spec to work that would make most of us happy.
I don’t really think that’s fair to say. 2H Frost did work before Blizzard removed it. It was based around weapon damage and spamming Obliterate, which is what we have been doing for the past two expansions. It was great for PvP and only lost in raids due to off-hand procing and mastery scaling of DW. Blizzard gave us back something that doesn’t work in this version of the game, i.e. weapon damage/speed not mattering. With how Frost’s kit works right now, the proposed changes, minus MotFW, will even things out. We would need better talents which is what we’ve always needed. Maybe if Obliteration added a second component that increased Obliterates damage by 50% and melee attacks by 35% while using a 2H, it might be competitive vs BoS in the next expansion.
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