You said after Highmaul DW pulled ahead. That has an implication that it performed better; it did not. That means it’s a lie.
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Damn I hope 2h obliterate hits as hard as evidence hit kelliste in this thread.
She got obliterated so hard the lich king couldnt even bring her back.
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Don’t worry. She’ll be back posting nonsense once she feels the heat has died down.
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2h has always been better for pvp, which is all I cared about before retiring my dk in legion.
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I saw about an even split in the poll thread and the 200+ page thread(s) on the old forums. The unifying fact though was those that wanted it wanted it because they, like Dreadmoore said, believe Frost is the Arthas fantasy and should be 2H.
Anyone that wants big crit Obliterates though, I’ll remind you again: that will never happen again. Every melee ability scales off attack power, not weapon damage/DPS. Better weapons will make it hit harder but the focus will be like the current frost rotation.
It’s better balanced that way and will feel smoother to play, trust me. You don’t want to just be mashing Obliterate like Antorus DH’s mashed Chaos Strike for the entire fight
So you posted 2 logs, to say not to look at the dps but to look at DW having offhand damage?
If its a mix, then I should have said DW caught up. Wow.
Plus, lets look at one of your arguments, that DW avoided Obliterate… duhhhh. Its the masterfrost/mastersimple playstyle. What people are actually saying is that the split made it hard to balance. When you were looking at those logs in WoD, did you notice where Frost was as a whole? Some shot up to the top, but most were mid to low tier in dps.
It was the split in the spec that was the issue. The entire point in those playstyles is each weapon set would focus on a certain ability. DW, focused on Frost Strike so it would stack mastery, that mastery stack would in turn make 2 howling blasts do more damage than an obliterate. You would also keep a plague rune on cd to force runic empowerment to bring back a death rune or frost rune for more howling blasts.
Most of what you are saying is a complete strawman as well.
The spec is basically going back to its roots at this point in time, prior to WoD, they both played the same, well WoD and MoP.
Alpha at the moment clearly DOES favor DW. The mechanics, which have been in place since wrath which made DW better, are still there doing the work of pushing DW ahead. And no, no one is making the argument that it shuld be removed, but people have made the argument that it should be ignored because 2h players just dont care about dps.
I have also suggested ways to bring them both in line. So before you go spouting off on how im a liar, dont turn into one yourself one. I have been giving suggestions on how to do it before the announcement even hit. Even suggested it in BFA beta when people were trying to create a 2h spec that was shut down.
DW just scales better. It has in every expansion because of the basic differences where 2h just doesnt have access to certain things. Tell me, can 2h half crit? What about Razorice can it use that with another runeforge? How about KM procs? DW is seeing 4 times as many as 2h, 85-22 in 12 minutes in favor of DW. Its been built around DW since wrath. DW has ALWAYS had these benefits, extra rune, increased km procs, half crits (which doesnt play as much of a role but it is there).
The game is not limited to WoD like so many people think. It wasnt even that great of an expansion. Frost wasnt that great of a dps during that time because of the split.
Once the split was gone Frost was in a good spot in legion and still is now. People might not like the playstyle with BoS, but you cant deny that its good dps.
In MoP and WoD when the whole big obliterate thing really came into form, it was more due to the might of the frozen wastes passive than weapon damage. It wouldn’t matter what obliterate scaled off of if there was a passive or talent that increased obliterate damage over everything else like might of the frozen wastes.
Fun>balance ESPECIALLY IN AN RPG! I should be able to build my character and focus its power however I want within the confines of class fantasy. Especially if such a build was possible in the past. Do I really have to wait for MoP classic to be able to play it again?
The part you bolded makes you sound just like the people who said 2h would never come back. Stop it, get some help. Let people have fun.
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You’ve posted zero. Padding post count.
Should have, but didn’t. Stop trying to move the goalposts.
It obviously wasn’t hard to balance, since people could clearly parse highly whether they were 2h or dw.
Dude, from Wrath to end of WoD, 2h and dw were both valid playstyles. They bounced back and forth as to what was meta and what wasn’t, but they were both viable one way or another throughout the entirety of the existence of dk all the way till legion.
He has posted evidence to back up his claims. You’ve posted zero.
What? No they didn’t.
Hold the presses. A playstyle that hasn’t been in the game for 2 expansions is behind one that Blizzard has pushed their design philosophy on for those same 2 expansions? Wow, who would have thought? It’s the first build of alpha and they’re getting constant tester feedback. Secondly, you keep trying to place all your eggs in the same basket. Not everyone wanted 2h back for the aesthetic, and to claim otherwise is hilarious.
You’ve mostly been a debbie downer in every thread you post in, to the point people are tired of it.
You’ve, again, mostly been arguing in circles and getting upset when people don’t agree with you.
Again, it hasn’t been better in every freaking expansion. You keep claiming this but can offer zero evidence to prove it. Back up your assertions or stop making these grandiose claims. They’ve bounded back and forth patch by patch up until 2h’s removal in legion.
Again, because Blizzard shifted design focus to dw, not because 2h is all of the sudden bad. Stop with the strawmans yourself.
If that were the case, it would have been the spec/meta of choice the entirety of the existence of DKs. It hasn’t been.
Moving the goalposts again.
Frost was average dps outside of freaking Nighthold.
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Awesome job Siekfreid.
Despite what anyone says or how many times they repeat it, repetition of falsehoods does not make it a fact. As I have said a million times, as I played this game fairly consistently through all of the expansions until Legion and BFA (once 2h Frost was removed, I began losing interest), 2h Frost and DW Frost were very competitive in DPS (typically being a 5 or 6% DPS away from each other). 2h Frost focused on Obl dmg and DW Frost focused on frost dmg. 2h Frost was, almost, always better in PVP. 2h Frost and DW Frost would often go back and forth in relation to who had the best PVE DPS at any given moment. However, DW was frequently the best PVE set by the end of an expansion, usually by 5 or 6%.
Edit: And yes, Frost, overall, was almost alway pretty average DPS in relation to other DPS classes/specs, irrespective of whether or not you used DW or a 2h weapon.
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Sorry, meant to post on my DK.
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Honestly bringing back might of the frozen wastes and/or giving 2H ability to runeforge two runes would be a good start to equalizing DW and 2H.
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I don’t know why people want to limit the spec to just MoP and WoD. That’s when the split happened.
And your side has presented nothing. Absolutely nothing. If 2h was always ahead or mostly ahead why in the world didn’t they choose that one? If it was as popular as people have said why wasn’t it chosen? Was it to just take a dump on the best performing and most popular? Or was it the fact that DW performed better the majority of the time?
Firelands with threads saying they have to take a hit to dps because there was only 1 1h weapon for dps the entire tier? How about wrath where guides didn’t even mention 2h frost at the time. Time and time again. Preach getting rank 1 dps, yet the excuse given is they can make anything work, yet when you are competing with other people you have to use an optimal build because they too are using optimal builds.
Just wow.
What… Who even said that…
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A lot of people actually. The weapon sets didn’t always have a focus, that was in MoP and WoD when they tacked on ability damage increases depending on the weapon set.
I can’t take it anymore man. Its just aggravating and ridiculous. You win, the sky is green, up is down. Im done.
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It was said, 2h focused on obliterate and DW focused on frost strike, which just is not true for wrath and Cata. MoP is when they changed ToT and MotFW to increase these abilities damage based on its respective weapon you chose.
You keep freaking talking about your evidence and logs and everything else but don’t post jack crap. And no, we have presented something. Someone literally posted logs from WoD showing 2h vs DW breakdown to counter your arguments.
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And you guys keep talking about how 2h was always better. Where is all of your evidence. At least I presented something and also talk through why DW was better.
This is a convo that took place months ago and it’s the same thing now. It’s just he isn’t posting ability buffs because that didn’t work then either.
No one said 2H was always better. Stop projecting.
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