Distance yourself respectfully

My big hope for the Sylvanas book is that it does just break all this stuff down and explain it from beginning to end just as a period at the end of the sentence. A world in which Sylvanas is written out of the game, the next expansion is focused on something completely unrelated, and this book puts everything around that stuff to bed is probably for the best.

I’m in a weird spot where I was burnt out on Sylvanas coming off BFA but I actually came around on the arc that she went through for Shadowlands and I like that quite a bit. But I think for most folks, they’re so jaded about Sylvanas and this direction of the story that the best thing is to put it all to rest and move on to other stuff.

I’ve never been her fan since wc3, but it’s even worse when the story seems to bend over backwards for her. Like when Tyrande confronted her with the night warrior powers, only to have them disappear when she Was on the crux of avenging her people. Or how Sylvanas was the one that robbed Anduin of his free will, (the jailer may have created the blade but she’s the one who actually forced Anduin to take it up) yet she will never serve!

7 Likes

thats a valid criticism, and beliefe me, many people feel the same.

I’m not one of them. The Arthas story is one of the driving and engaging stories of this game, but if that was the reason I played, my main would not be a night elf.

I’m a arthas fan, but he definitely isnt the reason I stuck with wow all these years. I think people are giving arthas and his popularity too much credit

2 Likes

I agree, but from what I’ve seen most fans would have preferred not to see Arthas at all and leave his legacy untouched. It was the writers who decided to bring him back and I think it is legitimate to ask the question"For what?"

He did indeed get the ending he deserved- in Wrath, when we killed him.

But teasing him in the Bastion trailer, the whole storyline with Uther and Devos who circumvented the Arbiter’s judgement and sent his soul to the Maw- just to have his soul obliterated in the end with no conciliatory note whatsoever, that was definitely disappointing. Especially in an expansion that is set in the afterlife and stresses the importance of forgiveness and renewal at every occasion.

I can’t help but feel that this is a clear meta message from the writers, that they want to turn over a new leaf, and while that is well in their right, they could have done so without unnecessary graverobbing. Just my two cents.

11 Likes

Just a way to force a perspective into the story.

This part is debatable. Sylvanas was trying to get Anduin to pick it up willingly. Otherwise Zovaal would’ve done it by force. Anduin noticed this and used it to his benefit. By giving Sylvanas the choice. Whatever she decides he will do. Therefore whatever happens will be on her.

Fifty layers of Torghast

6 Likes

Name for my Zovaal/Sylvanas fanfic tho?

1 Like

I want a copy for research….

1 Like

if someone actually starts to write that, and they aren’t immediately stuck dead by a bolt of lightening out of the clear blue sky, it is prove God is a lie.

Didn’t they hire a whole bunch of idealistic extremists shortly after the whole lawsuit thing?

Wouldn’t surprise me if their sense of disrespect has bled over into the story.

Oh come now Skarm, you know deep down you want a fifty layers of Torghast.

I believe the original version on the beta was that basically.

Yeah, I think it’s a misreading of events if someone thinks Sylvanas dominating Anduin and then saying “I will never serve” is somehow inconsistent. It’s just her character arc playing out.

Like, to lay this out end to end, we see Sylvanas convince the Jailer that she’s going to persuade Anduin to come onside and help them. Zovaal agrees to let her try it her way and makes her responsible for turning Anduin. But when she goes to talk to Anduin and explain why she’s allied with Zovaal (the machine of death is unfair and she wants to remake it into something better,) Anduin sees past all that to point out that Zovaal isn’t trustworthy. This is the first seed of doubt implanted in Sylvanas’ mind that maybe she’s backed the wrong horse. And it’s important to note here that this is the first time that Sylvanas has been straight up with anyone about why she’s doing what she’s doing. She thinks she’s going to convince Anduin by being honest with him but that doesn’t happen.

Next, Sylvanas asks Zovaal what he’s going to do about Denathrius’ capture and Zovaal tells her that Denathrius played his part so it won’t matter. This is the seed of doubt growing, that Zovaal doesn’t actually care about his allies and is just using them. On top of that, it’s where Zovaal forces the Anduin issue by giving Sylvanas Kingsmourne. Even when she brings the sword to Anduin, she thinks it’s his choice but again Anduin flips the script on her. The choice isn’t whether Anduin will willingly join, he won’t. The choice is: will Sylvanas dominate Anduin in order to pursue her goals? And obviously, Sylvanas chooses to do something terrible (dominate someone) for her percieved greater good (remaking the machine of death into something fair.)

After this, in the battle of Ardenweald, Sylvanas learns Tyrande murdered Nathanos. This is more doubt, it’s ramping up, because she realizes that Zovaal didn’t tell her about Nathanos’ death and allow her to reunite with him (like he predicted he would at the end of BFA.) These are the warning signs that she refuses to acknowledge, the red flags she can’t see because she’s so close to the goal that will make everything worth it.

And that culminates in the Sanctum of Domination raid where she successfully holds the players and Jaina, Thrall and Bolvar at bay long enough for the Jailer to complete his ritual. And when he does, standing on the precipice of completing his eons old goal, he tells Sylvanas that he wants to remake a reality where everyone serves him. This is the moment those seeds of doubt blossom and Sylvanas realizes she’s been played. Anduin was right. From the very first minutes he was captured, Anduin was right. And it’s this moment where she turns on the Jailer, even if the effort is ultimately futile, saying “I will never serve.” And obviously, over the course of 9.2, Sylvanas is now motivated to undo the harm that she’s caused, free Anduin from his domination and stop the Jailer.

So, it’s not inconsistent writing for Sylvanas to dominate Anduin and then say “I will never serve.” All the narrative tension in Sylvanas’ choice to dominate Anduin relies specifically on the fact that Sylvanas isn’t comfortable with dominating someone, but she’s willing to do terrible things to accomplish the greater good. And her realization in “I will never serve” includes a realization that she made a greivous mistake in dominating Anduin, which is why in the cinematic, she’s the one shouting his name and running forward. She’s the one that made the choice to put him in that position in the first place.

1 Like

Agreed. The issue I have is that Blizzard has said that she has known or has been with the Jailer from Edge of Night. It just seems odd that she was fine with whatever he was doing until it started to involve Anduin. It also calls into question some of her schemes, like with Eyir. Were the Val’kyr for her or for Zovaal? This is why I feel that her siding with Zovaal should’ve happened after Stormheim, not way before. Also some dialogue between her and Kel’thuzad should’ve happened. The guy that Arthas slaughtered her and her people to resurrect has sided with the Jailer. Hmmmmmm? Sus.

5 Likes

Current writers have a big “that guy” vibe. The DM that tries to throw out the current setting in a tabletop game against the players will is a giant red flag.

As we saw with A Game of Thrones, trying to wrap something up in a hurry can have some significant consequences.

10 Likes

I’m more than tired of the idea that Every Big Bad gets a conciliation moment. However to have the great and feared Arthas Menethil snuffed out like a candle adds to the horror theme of a post life story.

But there actually was some conciliatory dialogue from Sylvanus at his passing.

1 Like

The NPCs have definitely all transitioned into DMPCs under the current crew- it’s all about them, we’re just forced to watch, we can’t just run away or kill them off.

5 Likes