This is not a bad faith argument because it comes from the inference of the system derived from the rules provided by the game maker. Absent that, I would agree with you.
There are many ways for this to work better. But what is bad faith is to pretend that Blizzard intended the system to work the way that you are suggesting when they specifically made a transmog roll. That they would deliberately waste their time and intend the system to work that way defies any kind of logic regarding corporate activity. Decisions like those are not made made with the intention that they are redundant or extraneous. That may be the result, but not the intent.
What I am arguing is that Blizzard designed the rules (poorly) with the intention that people who wanted a transmog would roll transmog. The wiggle room is in what is reasonable to the common person. Some people expect you to follow the guidelines as they are laid out, and if you don’t, you are a jerk. Others, like you, think the situation is silly, the rules are broken, and feel they deserve to roll need on a transmog. I believe one should follow the rules as provided, personally. But that is an opinion of how society should work based on agreed-upon guidelines (one could always argue that we get no real say in this so it’s moot, which I think is fair).
Personally, I couldn’t care less about transmogs, and I already have everything I need from LFR. I just run it to get tokens for gold, and because I’m bored. I roll need on everything in order to sell it, because everyone’s just out for themselves anyways.
TL;DR You can argue all you like that you deserve to roll need on a transmog. That is not what I am arguing against here.
In this case, yea, I figured why not. Kinda tired of trying to follow rules that nobody else does! I decided to do this the last time a thread like this came around and everyone laid out the same arguments. So… c’est la vie.
IDK why you think these rules exist in LFR. Unless loot rules are stated by a group leader/agreed on by the raid as a whole, it’s FFA within whatever blizzard allows.
As is this. It is up to players to manage loot rules within their own groups. Any group that fails to set rules, fails to set rules. There is no fallback default assumed rules, and GMs will not assist with disputes.
As to your point on “waste of time to create” It is. They should have reverted to the original phrasing on need restrictions from beta: “Same item, same ilvl” Not the “same item, same or higher ilvl” that we currently have.
That’s WoW Classic, which has no LFR. In LFR, loot rules are pre-established.
Look, I get it. People feel they deserve to roll on transmog. I don’t disagree in a vacuum. I’m saying that it’d be illogical to think that’s what Blizzard intended with their creation of a transmog roll.
In any event, this is going in circles, and I don’t really have anything else to add that’s not already present. Have a great day everyone, and just… do whatever.
The bad faith argument I’m referring to is with your portrayal of the conversation here, as if the people who are higher geared simply after an item for mog immediately call someone a tyrant for pointing out that the need button is being used for mog. It’s only once the lower geared players insist that higher geared players who participated in the kill all the same should be using the transmog button that is functionally equivalent to passing that you might get the accusation of tyranny.
Y’all forgot real quick that we had the same threads every week with PL where people cried about people not giving away their drops.
The only way to solve this problem is probably just giving everyone everything on the loot table the first time they down the boss, because the heart of it is “I didn’t get what I wanted when I wanted it! The system stinks!”
I haven’t forgotten… GD will complain about the sun coming up and the sky being blue.
I do think Personal Loot won’t solve the whining from loot hoarders that want every drop and complain bitterly when they don’t get what they wanted, especially when they see the drop they want and someone else gets it. No system will solve that as it’s a personality disorder: selfish person playing a cooperative MMO. Hazzikostas even used that term when he said that DPS meter obsession is a “player-invented problem” and that he has no intention of making Power Infusion a self-only buff, in a cooperative game. From that disclosure, we can conclude that the devs don’t always cater to the screaming of players for a particular change.
However, they did change from Personal Loot to Group Loot. I think that was primarily to avoid the degenerate armor stacking by RWF guilds (and copycat wannabes later in the season) and not because of the needs/wants of the 80% of raiders. A change to curb bad behavior in 1% of the raiding populace, is not necessarily good for the other 99%.
Group Loot is nearly identical to Personal Loot for the likelihood of getting a piece, just that your rolls are visible to all. Where it’s not identical is the possibility of getting loot that is not useable by anyone in the raid comp, since Group Loot is from the boss’ entire loot table (we got 4 war-glaives this tier, yet we have no demon hunter in any of our kills… that sucks) and Personal Loot is personalized to your loot specialization (it’s always useable if you get loot, but it may not be an upgrade and might still go to waste if it’s higher ilvl).
I think as long as there is loot and it’s tradeable under certain criteria, then there will always be whining about the loot rules of the game.
I’m guessing you mean in LFR, at which point if you prevent me from rolling on it and have a fair chance at loot from a boss I participated in killing, I’ll just stop queueing, along with many others. You’ll have longer queues. You’ll have longer kills. You’ll have more wipes.
And in the end, since only low geared people will be there, you’ll still be rolling against the same amount of people.
Oh and Blizzard, make higher difficulty gear give the appearance of the previous ones. Would remove a lot of grievances people have.
How is it unfair that people have the same chance roll on an item that dropped from a boss everyone helped kill? Especially when they can only roll on items for one chosen spec and not every item that drops?
Or is your definition of unfair “not getting what i want when i want?”
It’s also hilarious how he’s complaining about ashkandur on tank, on a death knight. You know, the one class that tank’s spec have ashkandur as best in slot.
You’re ignoring a significant benefit of GL. They added restrictions like rolling on tier and same item/higher ilevel, while also removing trade restrictions that PL has, which make GL objectively better for players actually trying to get usable loot.
Yes, the possibility of nobody in the raid being able to use an item stinks, but it’s also pretty low odds in LFR where these complaints are highest. (And it’s not functionally much different than PL constantly flooding groups with rings/neck/back that were just getting vendored or sharded every week just because everyone can use them.)
It’s great for organized guilds that trust their players won’t ninja loot and /gquit (I’m assuming a majority of organized guilds have guild loot rules on top of the built-in Group Loot rules and are good about trading stuff they don’t need if they have no guild rules). It’s objectively worse for a majority of players that PUG into Normal/Heroic and for all players that want something from LFR.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I think you’re saying that sharding rings/necks/backs is a similar likelihood under both GL and PL? I think that’s true because I think the likelihood of those items dropping is slightly higher than for class/spec specific pieces (i.e., the loot table does not have an equal probability distribution for all items, not explicitly listed as Rare/Very Rare).
This is what happens when you’re primary route of gearing is pugging content. There is no social stake in mass needing on gear and switch loot specs when you’ll never see the people you’re playing with again.
Stop pugging, and join a guild/organized group where people will face social consequences for poor behavior. You’re doing this to yourself.
