You had me at the topic title
You hit the nail on the head. People complain something is too hard…maybe that something isn’t for them.
I can’t mythic raid and I can’t really do anything over a mythic + 5. Does that mean those should get nerfed? Nah I’ll make it past+5 though probably not mythic raid…and that’s ok.
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Well a challenge is suppose to put you out of your comfort zone and it differs from person to person . Like one guy might be afraid of spiders while other guy keeps spiders as pets. So the challenge is obvious for the first guy . 
That’s why Its not suppose to be fun for the person doing it , so when some person says I enjoy a challenge it doesn’t make any sense . Do you like to torture yourself 
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A lot of people had fun pushing keys in Dragonflight though, in the tougher S1 and easier S2-S3 as well.
A lot of those people do not have fun pushing keys anymore.
Have you never heard of masochism before?
I think its kind of a variation of fomo. Its seen as content they cant access. I feel the same way sometimes. Like, i see people doing 12s and mythic bosses and i do feel a bit left out. But at the end of the day there is still a lot of time. And also not the end of the world if i never do that stuff. I just wanna push as much as i can. But, i see where people are coming from.
Yea obviously not spoilers. But idk if I would’ve enjoyed the game as much if I didn’t come to it already understanding the general structure of the zones.
I went into the DLC blind and ended up beating my head against the wall trying to get all the map fragments.
Last night, played me Skyrim VR for the first time ever
Man. I’ve never liked Elder Scroll games.
llama things
Idk what llama things ur talking about. And I’m not really sure what elevator you’re talking about. I would assume the one up into Castle Mourne in the Weeping Peninsula.
Hopefully you at least found your horse and realized that Storm veil castle is where the first boss is. (I think the game does a good job of directing you there). But if you go there right away you’ll probably be underleveled (unless you’re souls master of course).
So I assume you got lost in the sauce of all the side content in limgrave. Which is frankly too much, and a lot of it isn’t the highest quality.
When I was guiding my buddy thru the game (he wouldn’t play it without me guiding it, and he ended up loving it). I had him start with the dragon in the lake, then he did the Tree Sentinal (without me telling him, slightly over level but it’s ok). Then I directed him to Castle Mourne because that’s the first real legacy quality dungeon. And then he went to Stormveil Castle.
From there it was just a matter of directing him towards all of the major bosses and legacy dungeons (and a few other cool secrets). And directing him away from unnecessary low quality side content that would over level him.
There is SORT of an “intended path” if you squint really hard.
There is a very fundamental difference in gamers that folks don’t talk about as much as they should: Some people find fun in competition and challenge, while others find fun in other activities, such as collecting, exploring, play, and creating.
WoW used to be fairly friendly to both kinds of players. I remember in BC having a sort of symbiotic relationship with raiders, as I enjoyed creating the food and profession stuff they wanted and, when I HAD to do something challenging the more skilled players would help me out.
But gradually it seems the people who understand that all kinds of players make the game better left. And the devs made loads of missteps in not fostering that sort of synergy among players. The focus became far more skewed to competitive players for awhile. And even more people left. Guilds SHOULD have been communities where various types of players supported one another but instead became focused on one kind of activity.
The funny thing is that the scrapped game Titan was the kind of game where players of all kinds had things to do. Too bad the devs couldn’t “find the fun” in such a game.
If Blizzard wants to stay relevent they need to innovate in this regard. It’s what made WoW such a hit! All sorts of people were playing and you’d have a grandma and a 12 year old and some Navy guys and couples and college students all in a guild doing their thing. That’s what made the game explode: It appealed to so many people.
People who don’t want to do hard content need more to do . . .and it needs to feel meaningful. It needs to feel like you are progressing. One reason people try to do hard content and then complain is that the activities outside of harder content aren’t sufficiently enjoyable or rewarding. It’s bad design by devs who don’t understand people who play games differently.
I’m going to point out here that loads of people played both MoP Remix and the patch prior to TWW’s release (pre-patch) and had hours and hours of fun doing content that wasn’t hard. That tells you something right there. There is a huge audience for easier but rewarding content. Blizzard should be paying attention.
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It’s not as accessible as it was. It’s longer grindier and requires a higher level to even start the grind on.
A combination of changes in TWW discourage people from even bothering as they made M+ less attractive at both the low and high end.
Delves aren’t interesting enough to keep the players attention who played M+ longer in the last expansion and they’re not going to start mythic raiding if Blizzard thought they could push more people into that.
It’s pretty evident from the massive pushback from both higher end and mid-tier players that the changes in TWW were not well received and have done far more harm to the game than good if they did any good at all.
If you push all your players away and then people try to pretend the players are the problem not the design, I don’t know what to tell you but that mentality simply results in having fewer players.
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It makes more sense. Getting the crests to upgrade gear, before you got the gear to upgrade in the first place was kinda stupid
And the rest of your post goes on about hkw more appropriate effort for rewards is somehow a bad thing.
Why does it matter? Why are you all so hung up on a placeholder number? Why cant it be based off gameplay instead of ilvl?
Arent reward based people more apt to getting better and improving to reap the rewards? Why is it suddenly so backwards now where if you have to put forth any effort for the rewards its suddenly a bad thing?
In ER’s case? No. You could easily screw up your build on top of having questlines easily ruined that you’ll only get another shot at in NG+.
people want to progress to the higher IL myth gear. as the system currently stands there is no way to do this except for mythic raiding or lvl 10 dungeons. most people who want to progress their characters have full hero pieces and cant replace anything till they start doing 10s blizzard has effectively killed anyone’s who isn’t already doing 10s progression and people cant get a leg up to do 10s because myth gear is locked away behind them.
2 things need to happen
- blizz needs to make 8s drop guilded crests
- if blizz wants 10s to be as hard as they are then they need to drop myth gear at the end of the dungeon, otherwise they need to nerf them and make them more completable for the less hardcore.
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Honestly, my attention span doesn’t last that long. I usually am bored of a season within the 1st 2-3 raid clears. It’s why I always get AOTC/KSM out of the way within the 1st month, then the other 5 months I can just relax, take break, level alts etc. (I ended up with 64 max level toons in Dragonflight because of this lol). Grinding seasonal content is like banging your head over and over if you’re wiping. I hate progression. Get it over with, wait for next season
Or people need to get better/accept theyre not cut from the cloth they thought they were.
Either or. Carering to the participation trophy mindset isnt healthy either.
Not ALL content needs to he cleared by ALL participants. This is why different difficulties exist. Stay in the proper lane, or rise to meet the challenge of the next. Not really.a hard concept i wouldnt think?
And theres nothing wrong with this. Youre not seeing people getting CE and demanding you get the same thing without putting forth the effort. You go to where you have fun
If you wanted this you wouldn’t advocate for an ilvl difference between difficulties in the first place.
You had to put in effort for reward before. Your effort was more rewarded then than it is now, which bothers people.
Not true. It creates incentive. For example i enjoy the m+ gameplay loop. Getting a reward is a dopamine hit. But i dont play it for the gear. The gear is simply a byproduct of doing what i enjoy.
It was arguably very disproportionate. Little effort = big rewards.
I think the issue is, people relayed their reward to their skill level. They got Mythic level gear so they must be good. Now theyre suddently not good enough for it and someones feelings are being hurt by it?
What you fail to realize is that some of us consider a sense of accomplishment “fun” while others just want to feel powerful and steamroll content. Wow has historically been for the former type of player. If you happen to be the latter type of player … allow me to suggest dynasty warriors. You’ll love it.
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When I play a solo game, I don’t set the difficulty to the highest. I’m just glad it’s there.
Just the same for WOW, I’m not running +14s (because that’s mathematically possible.)
What a ridiculous take.
Not really. I did high end raiding years ago and just don’t care to anymore. I don’t know or care if I could do it today, it just doesn’t interest me at all anymore.
In DF I got to +20s later than the people who had more organized groups and were better than I was. I didn’t care, I still got to near max gear eventually and then got bored and stopped.
I don’t push higher than the gear cap and don’t have any friends that would want to.
The point isn’t “I think I’m as good as world first raiders because my item level is the same.” The point is you have a progression path that’s accessible to a wider variety of players and so more people played. The proof is in the numbers. TWW M+ is significantly less popular than DF.
You may want it to be because the players are all babies and suck or whatever it is you’ve convinced yourself of, but your opinion of the playerbase isn’t really relevant. The people who think only elitists should have the highest item level are clearly a minority. Why develop a game for them when you’re going to drive the rest of your players away?
Not sure how you’re measuring effort. Plenty of effort went into DF there was just a more reasonable end-point you could reach faster which clearly more people enjoyed.
I think many people who are perfectly capable of getting to +9 or even +10 just don’t like the current system and are just not going to bother.
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Well kind of hurt to put it in a way, but basicly, i want the experience of playing the game without the guide helping me first. I will research a bit of the game with reviews tho before hoping in.
Yeah they are kind of jank, but the RP element makes them good and it’s overall
decent. Along with the a mountain of mods that keep me playing until i’m dead.
Idk either, the things in the first area atfer the looping first area…
The first area where the tutorial zone is.
I’ve only played for 100 minutes. So imma guess my answer is no since it’s been too long. 2 Years infact.