Absolutely. But it was never in question whether some joined her cause willingly. Even AU Grom’s own son converted to the Light of his own accord. Its that those that refused are being given a convert or die treatment (or perhaps even forced conversion, if the Lightbound have that same capacity Xe’ra did). And that treatment extends far beyond just prior Iron Horde members. And (according to the Sermon of the High Exarch), that ambition extends far beyond even Draenor (which is why I do expect to see the Lightbound again). This Light Mother was very unlikely to put all that work into starting a “Unity under a single vision of the Light” crusade, if they were truly trapped on a doomed world, in a doomed timeline.
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IF Y’rel can forgive and lay aside those issues. (Which she DID by tne epilogue of WOD.) The Mag’har can surely do so as well.
Yrel doing so without any remorse or atonement from AU Grom was bad writing.
I’m not saying they cant. There just hasn’t been any resolution for it yet. Hell, because Orcs don’t have such an absurd like expectancy, it should be easier for the AU Mag’har to move on from it. Generational drift is n actually pretty useful thing when it comes to these sort of issues.
Well he’s safely dead now, so it really doesn’t matter. His was just a cameo presence so I really would not expect any further development.
Since when in Warcraft’s history is “Fade-To-Black” equal to death lol? I get the feeling we’ll see AU Grom again, just as a Lightbound by force convert. Which probably took quite a bit of torture to get him there.
What we know about Alt Draenor is this it had 30 years after Horde and Alliance forces left their world. During that time The Orcs of Draenor and The Draenei work together in peace and it seems that for many years this work well if going off what we heard is true with both groups being friendly and teaching each other. If the Orcs taking the primals out along with the Draenei and the light I am thinking both together is the reason the world appears so to so badly off.
There no proof that Grom dies buying the Horde Commander and Eitrigg we know some groups escape thanks to the Horde but the question is how much did the Lightbound learn after they won cause if what Grom said is true the Iron Horde forces there stood no chance and his final stand if he did die off-screen, was only to buy time for us to escape only. While the Iron Horde might of keep all their tech does not look like it had been improved on which most likely means that till the Lightbound started attack they were most likely at full peace.
If Yrel learns that the old Horde Commander that was there during the Iron Horde War show up and took a good size group and escapes with them you can bet that we are next on her list. If everything we heard is true about what happened. 30 years is a long time Yrel might of move on from what the Iron Horde did during the Iron Horde War but like most Draenei there faith and trust in the Light is strong look what it took for our Valen to have doubts in the Light.
Not necessarily. Look at how we humans hold grudges for decades or centuries after everyone involved in an event died (colonialism, Mexicans still getting grief over the Alamo, Catholics still getting grief over the Spanish Inquisition…).
This is especially true since most of the people involved are still alive (AU Grom,AU Draka, many of the Draenei…)
I said generational drift helps, it doesn’t solve it completely. But intergeneration disconnect does aid to take the edge off. The Draenei and NEs don’t have that luxury. Their life expectancies are so absurd that they will remain victims 10 Orcish Generations; 100 Orcish Generations; perhaps even 1000 Orcish Generations from now. THEIR pain will always be first hand and personal, not second hand, familial or ancestral.
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A good comment… and you just helped explain why it’s bad writing to sweep the Iron Horde under the rug just to make the AU Draenei in the wrong. If their pain will still be fresh after 100 Orcish generations, it’s definitely fresh after 30 years or less and given how at least one of the Orcs directly responsible for their pain - AU Grom - is still alive.
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I also think your response needs to chill. We truly have no idea what transpired during those 30 years. For all we know AU Grom was still punished for his actions, but part of that penance was seen as better served through helping clean up the world wide demon problem (that BOTH the Orcs and Draenei traitors were responsible for, or did people forget that one of the primary antagonists for the Draenei side of events was Exarch Othaar? Who ironically did more to damage the Draenei leadership structure than the Iron Horde ever managed to).
But, here. Here is my guess. AU Grom was used to help clean up the demon issue, but the Warchief of the Unified AU Mag’har was AU Durotan. Which tracks, given with the apparent decision to have Draenei tutors for Geya’rah (which she admits she had, and its probably part of what plays into her feeling of betrayal from the Draenei). It was only after Durotan’s apparent murder by the Lightbound that AU Grom reprised his role as Warchief. Due to there being few Orcish Chieftains left with his level of military experience, and the Mag’har feeling threatened. A series of events that likely occured decades after we left AU Draenor. With the biggest question being, what exactly happened with AU Durotan? What was the catalyst that required his death?
Did Queen Elizabeth die when I wasn’t paying attention to Earth events?
You’re right, we don’t know what happened during those 30 years. So we can’t assume the best or the worst about the AU Draenei/Lightbound or the Mag’har. The Mag’har recruitment scenario was a snapshot of the events, but a very one-sided one.
If theorycrafting’s on the table, here’s a theory for AU Durotan’s death; maybe the AU Draenei wanted to execute AU Grom for his crimes, but AU Durotan opposed that due to wanting him to face Mag’har justice (or they let AU Grom off when he simply won a Mak’gora), the argument turned into a fight and that’s how AU Durotan died. Grom told Draka and Geya’rah a one-sided version of the story, and the rest is history.
The demons were a threat to the Iron Horde and brought to AU Draenor in part through their efforts, so helping fight them seems less like penance and more like saving their own skins and cleaning up their own mess.
Exarch Othaar is debatable, as he only managed to kill Exarch Hataaru and temporarily capture and imprison Exarch Maladaar… while AU Ner’zhul indirectly caused the death of AU Velen.
After everything AU Grom did, I don’t think he should’ve gotten any leadership position, especially since we’ve executed people for lesser crimes in the story than AU Grom’s committed and AU Draka is still alive so she could’ve been in charge.
Yes, but he originally flees to Shattrath after he’s ousted, and plays a large part in the Demonic attacks of not just that city, but also the Auchindoun, and Socrathor’s Rise areas. He was hardly a character lacking in influence.
And the Iron Horde’s participation in the Shadowmoon fiasco being more … indirect as well. Grom is responsible for pressuring the SM and Ner’zhul into desperately seeking a new weapon to appease him, but they’re the ones who invested in the Void. And AU Rulkan was pretty clear, by the time we arrive … the SM have been completely consumed by that force (evident with how many Pale Orcs are within and in the surrounding areas of the SM enclave). Their actions and rituals are in service of it and the Dark Star (a depleted Naaru) by that point. AU Grom shares some blame, but he’s not directly responsible for that specific crisis.
EDIT: It also should be noted. AU Grom has a LOT of red in his ledger, but its pretty clear based on Hellscream he was supposed to be a more nuanced character than most of his Warlord counterparts. He at least, genuinely seemed to care deeply about the well being of his people; and was convinced through some VERY accurate (but selective) visions of the future that he was doing the right thing for them. I get the feeling that Yrel’s characterization wasn’t the only one that suffered from that expac’s entire middle being gutted.
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While I don’t think Othaar did as much damage to the Draenei’s leaders, you’re right about him having influence.
I don’t think Ner’zhul served the Dark Star, but he definitely helped it. I agree that Grom’s not directly responsible, but still shares part of the blame (he never opposed the Void use).
I also agree with you that a lot of these AU characters suffered from having the expansion’s middle gutted. At this point, and after careful consideration, I could take a grey-and-grey conflict (the Draenei go Light fanatic to get payback for the Iron Horde), but I fear that nuance and lore consistency (we know how much Blizzard cares about lore consistency, unfortunately) won’t be applied.
Which is IMO leads to another peculiar thing.
Given how long-lived draenei are, and that there always were plently of those who are, let’s say, would have no problems to participate in a war, the former concept of naaru managed to fit it well.
As I see it, there was this “curiousity killed a cat” race, very much focused on power and knowledge, which could lead to rather bad results, but because of the help of naaru, they instead of
The blood elves have followed us here? They are evil to the core and should be wiped from existence!
© https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Draenei_starting_experience
they made a choice to follow the ideas of naaru (at the time), of altruism, compassion, etc.
Now, remove the old vision of the race with its
Heavy-handed violence is not the draenei way, but sometimes it is the only way.
This is one of life’s truths that many do not understand until it is too late. So it was for our people, when we were slaughtered at the hands of the orcs.
Becoming a Hand of Argus is a process of rebirth. And with birth comes pain…
© https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Declaration_of_Power
and what I see is that the devs probably do not get or do not care about the original concepts they are working with.
ninja edit: what I meant is that the original vision of the race worked fine with the original version of naaru. With alteration of the Light comes the oddness of the draenei image / identity. Another narrative tool it is, sadly.
gl hf
Here’s sort of my stance on both AU Grom and Yrel atm (and this may be me just being optimistic). I DO think Yrel is being manipulated by A malevolent or at least agendad force amongst the Light Cosmology thru her prophetic visions. A sufficiently powerful one. And I DO think that Turalyon will be swept up in that should that force and the Lightbound appear on Azeroth while so many peaceniks are gone. However … I think given these hypotheticals, it leaves enough room for them both to find paths of atonement for whatever they do while under those manipulations. Just as I do with AU Grom. Especially now, as if he is still alive, he is at the mercy of his once victims. Which will compile with any punishments he received during that 30 year gap.
At the end of the day, I’m a functionalist. I see the Lightbound and their flock (both forcibly converted and voluntary) as the last bastion of AU refugees either the AU Mag’har or the MU Draenei are likely to see. They may come as an antagonistic force at first, but at some point the truth will be revealed of this Light Mothers duplicity and thus they will provide some population boost to very damaged peoples. Among them, a AU Yrel AND an AU Grom. With the latter being more important for Geya’rah’s personal development than anything (if she can’t save her world, he would be something symbolic she could save after he has some lovely “Draenei Time” for a while). And AU Yrel, and a supporting role AU Grom could situationally bolster their respective races’ rosters.
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One thing with Turalyon that never seemed clear in Legion
The lightforging ritual is basically a spiritual journey that had seemingly nothing to do with the Naaru. We get to see that when T’paartos goes through his and we accompany the himbo draenei through it.
But the lightforged also weren’t the ones who lost it when Xe’ra died, it was all Turalyon instantly going berserk (I know, a lot of people thought it was out of character for the LF draenei).
I got the vague impression that he was much closer to being lightbound when rewatching.
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I mean, his entire physiology was changed. He’s a Human, but he survived (from his perspective) a thousand years of battle against the Legion. And while he did settle down, his response to what Xe’ra attempted to do to Illidan was pretty wishy washy. Not to mention his outrage when realizing that there were Paladins on the Horde during the 4th war. The guy does have enough dents in his shiny armor that he at least has room to be played, given the right environment and situation. That’s all I’ll say.
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And as a final note, while we don’t know how Prime Naaru are crafted or selected, if the possibility exists to ascend one of them … I can’t think of a better guy to take that sort of high profile rank than A’Dal. He and his band of Naaru (which number about 9 now) have always proven themselves truly benevolent and caring people/beings. To everyone, not just those that revere the Light. Its about time that his branch of Light Worship that has done so much good throughout the universe actually get recognition. Even if there are other more extreme Naaru/Light beings out their with their own visions of the Light and what path to walk on.
EDIT: Because truly, that is the benefit I see from a shades of the Light expac. Its not just to give races like the VElves, Forsaken, and AU Mag’har to subvert the negative expectations of them and show their capacity for heroism and grit; but also truly to force that clash of ideologies. Between those FORGED by the Light, and those BOUND to it. Truly, making Naaru individuals rather than a Hive Mind was a good move.