if it were only just the videos he posted, i would agree that it could be skewed but having witnessed warriors in pvp both on my side and against , warriors are indeed scary when played/geared right.
and this is a reliable thing and not just the cause of lucky crit strings but still.
but anyways keep on dooming about warriors i guess .
I went on PTR and to a target dummy that has 0 armor (for reference a boomkin has around 54% armor, more than a warrior). Mortal strike with BiS crits for 2.5k. I made a hunter 2h melee with the same ilvl gear, and Raptor strike did almost 8k, Wyvern strike does 7k, and mangoose bite was 6.5k. A 100 rage execute crits a little over 5k… I made a boomkin and in 1.0 sec casted starfire for about 10k damage. I tested starfalls dps and it basically matches what Arms does with its whole kit.
Arms just does no damage. Can see how it fares in PVE on warcraft logs and it would need a 70% overall boost to catch ret paladin. Warriors gets more dps in raid than ret, so in pvp warrior will prob need closer to a 100% overall boost to catch ret. Its just math.
A dev, Zirene, openly said they arent updated Arms and its so far behind it would take a lot of work to make it playable. Too much time adding new specs to the game to make Arms good. Too much take making all 3 talent trees of rogue good in pvp+pve + a tank spec to update Arms.
Does that mean you cant get bis, make a premade, and go kill fresh pugs in a battleground? of course not. But if you try to take any sort of fair fight youre doomed. A shadowpriest in raid sims within 2% of fury, but remove raid buffs and the same priest set up does 300% your damage. No chance.
you ran those tests before the most recent changes (on druid at least cause they made dreamstate not affect player targets amongst other things) .
honestly comparing other classes abilities and damage without respect for their other abilities tends to be a poor comparision due to lack of reference to other mitigating factors and balance considerations.
for example, hunters dont have charge or fear or alot of the other tools warriors have.
and also hunters might very well be a little too strong on top of all that anyways.
ive seen in fair fights warriors beat nearly every class.
fair fight doesnt automatically mean equal skill though.
all this to say what i said before…
a well played/geared warrior (mostly arms warriors) is a frightening thing to go against and in the case of ms warriors an almost certainly auto include in a premade of any note as a shot caller and main assist.
Skill doesn’t fix the damage gap (unless you’re literally so much better than the person it’s like fighting a bot), right now if you do not have a BRE and the stacks from it your damage is a joke. I have an untamed blade and am R13, there’s 0 point to play 2h even fury because the damage is literally not there. I’m getting hit for more by caster as glad spec using my raid shield for the dr than I’ve ever hit them for with my 2h. Pretending it’s fine because of what it does in premades it stupid.
I’m actually so beyond sick of this debate. Boomies hit for 3-4k with starfire but warrior can’t be a playable spec in 1v1 in SoD? We have lock, shaman, and rogues tanking, we have mages healing… and warrior has the worst leveling experience it’s ever had, the worst open world experience even with gear, the worst pvp experience (worse than vanilla by miles) Fix it. I’m sick of it. I WAS MORE VIABLE SOLO PVPING IN 2019, how did we get worse?
Arms > prot and fury for PvP
no theyre just way harder to kill and can have a ranged spec that blasts too
but out the gate, doing double someones dps and also having a bunch of magic involved that ignores armor is pretty massive
My numbers are presuming that the reader knows the class’ other strengths, and warrior doesnt have many. A boomkin is a lot harder to kill, can heal, etc. A ret can bubble, buff, freedom, cleanse, etc. The list goes on.
Same gear, same skill, 0 shot. You cant do half of someone elses dps with less utility/survive and come out on top absent insane outlier RNG
the only class you’ll sometimes face that if things go your way you can beat is mage, and thats only if they arent the right spec. Any other class it doesnt matter what spec they are youre just effed if they have your gear and can mouse click spells. The damage-in-out math is so extremely in their favor. Before battleground modifiers are considered, if a 30 rage mortal strike crits a boomkin for 1,100 dmg and starfire crits you for 10k, you have no shot. Oh, stop starfire? They can wrath you if they want, but most dont bother with any of that. They just spam instants starsurfe sunfire and moonfire and double your in-out damage ratio and you die. They can barksin, have around 55% mitigation before that, dont have to actually cast, and if they do the can proc instant slow heals.
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dont know what to tell you other than ive watched long form videos of warrior gameplay and seen in game warriors being successful .
maybe rethink?
I feel stronger than I did in all previous phases by a decent margin(mostly thanks to the WL gear) and BM off-pieces, but still not on part with the S tier class. I still think Warriors need some kind of armor penetration.
And the guy playing with Untamed Blade, that thing sucks bro. Warriors need either Bonereaver’s Edge or Spinal Reaper until you get the R14 weapons. Spinal Reaper doesn’t hit quite as hard as Bonereaver’s Edge when all the armor penetration stacks are up, but its close. And with Axe Spec you crit almost every other hit which I love, I’m probably gonna go axe over sword when I get R14 tbh(though I’ll obviously buy them all and rotate).
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Yea, unfortunate I have none of the better weapons because they’ve never dropped. UTB forces me to play glad stance (shield slam hitting for more than my 2h does is insane btw) and it’s just not fun. I’m suffering through ranking that I normally enjoy just because it’s PvE bis to have the 1h. They should probably baseline armor pen for arms to make more weapons viable. I strongly suspect BRE will be the strongest 2h for arms pvp until MoM. Which is crazy considering how much they keep buffing everything in each tier.
UTB with the proc active used to be ~equivalent to a 2 stack BRE in damage output across the board. Now with how much armor most classes have it’s not even close. BRE just continues to scale.
I want a buff to mortal strike as much as the next guy but this is just so atrociously wrong. I have 500 yt shorts proving it.
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Nah as a full decked out warrior, i can beat any class as long as theyre not geared well. Its a shame i just checked my 2019 warrior clips and im hitting just as hard but people had 1/3 the hp they do now. The math aint mathing for pvp warrior.
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Yeah, I was looking at some of my old clips, I crit a rogue for 1k with an overpower crit when I had demonshear, a dungeon blue weapon. We were pre-raid geared.
I crit pvp geared mages for that much in bgs rn with overpower, everything else not even half that much. I have a raid weapon. The math is in fact, not mathing.
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Grresh I’m curious, are you going to get the blood moon belt and bracers and loose the core forged 2-pc for the extra stamina? Also are you going to get the 2nd blood moon ring, And loose hit % ?
I’m trying to decide if all that extra stamina is worth it or if should just stick with coreforged 2-pc and band of accuria
Right now I use the Neck, Belt, and one of the Rings and I plan to get the bracers next. I replaced Onslaught Girdle and Quick Strike Ring with the Blood Moon belt/ring because those 2 alone give 49 more Stamina together without sacrificing much other stats. I use Puissant Cape and Don Julio’s Band along with the R13 set to keep 5% hit. If I had Band of Accuria I’d swap out the cape. I have just over 9k HP in the open world self buffed with flask.
I actually haven’t been rolling with 2-pc core forged in PvP because back when I was raiding I DPS’d with a 2Hander and the Draconic 2pc was mandatory for that. I may convert my T2 bracers/belt to core forged, I don’t know yet…depends if I do AQ40 or not. I can get away with this a lot more than most warriors since I’m Undead and don’t have to worry about fears as much with both WOTF and the new 2 minute trinket. I only really switch to Berserker Stance if I need to pummel otherwise I just sit in Battle Stance to avoid taking extra damage and pump away with Mortal Strike/Slam/TBF Overpower procs/and SD Execute procs.
Yeap here ya go,
Arms:
The weapon damage scaling of Mortal Strike has been increased to 400% weapon damage and ignores 30% of the targets armour
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Hmm very interesting thank you for your insight. Ya that is definitely a nice bonus of being undead.
The 2-pc core forged is nice for some things like intercepting from 0 rage or meakhooking from 0 rage by switching stances plus using blood rage.
But all that extra stamina is so tempting.
I use endless rage and als almost never use trend and just sit in zerker stance mostly just swapping to battle stance to over power and sweeping strikes.
having BiS gear and fighting ppl with less than 3k hp in a BG is not “proving it”
try facing a class with your ilvl that doesnt click their action bars
a boomkin’s in-out damage with BWL is going to be more than 4x what you can do. If a BiS warrior in BWL gear on PTR mortal strike crits a target dummy with 0 armor for 2.5k dmg, anda boomkin is doing 1.0 sec starfires for 10k, wraths and starsurges for over 3, and all the boomkin dots are critting for 1.5 to 2k, you basically have no shot. The boomkin has more armor than you and can also barkskin with no dps loss soo… goodbye. Mortal strike is as lethal as a sunfire dot tic.
Your argument is basically “I invest maximum time into this game and have the best optimal gear in the game and as a result I can beat keyboard turning players in sunken temple gear.” Everyone who normally takes the game seriously has already quit or raid logs and doesnt touch PVP a long time ago at this point so generally you’ll see a lot less discussion on the topic.
People in level 34 greens have more than 3k HP in a BG… 98% of everyone I see in BGs is rank 12 or higher in full pvp gear with 12k+ HP. Warriors specialize in training a target. it is literally what they have always done.
Idk why you think war should just get to 1 shot everything when that is never how warriors have functioned. You get on a target stay on a target and endlessly bash their brains in until they die. MS should not crit for 5k. It literally reduces all healing by 50%. Healers are super strong right now and MS is the best thing against them.
Or maybe your just a BUM…
In a 1vs1 I can beat a bis boomkin and it’s not that hard. Especially after the nerfs. It’s when they get the jump on me from 40 yards away while I’m fighting someone else that they’re a problem.
But still if we’re talking about dps on a target dummy obviously they will beat me in that competition…
If you PvP you’ll find out that target dummies don’t tell you anything about PvP
What’s hard to beat is all these shaman using way of earth and shield mastery tank runes whether they’re healers or ele.
Also you’re exaggerating if you say all my videos are only me beating low gear low skill players.