Did the word thrall become a taboo?

Lore Story Forum
101

Well, at least you admit your media literacy is poor. Welcome to my small block list. Your nonsense is tiring

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102

Says the one who only see red vs blue. Already blocked you

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Anyway, my main hope is Undermine itself is actually fun for those looking forward to it and that Gallywix actually survives his fight. If anyone had a contingency plan for such an eventuality, it would be Gallywix.

That at least wouldn’t ruin it for some people. I’m not really a goblin or cartel fan, so Undermine will just be one of those patches I probably will do the bare minimum in.

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104

If anything, if we don’t kill him, we do to him what he did to Trade Prince Maldy. Steal all his stuff and make him a prisoner on a deserted island and left to rot.

105

I would particularly mind it. But I would mind a clean kill either.

106

I just remember back to BFA where the Alliance tried to kill him (gallywix) but it was a decoy that we killed.

So it is possible that the one we fight in the raid is just that, another robot. But at the same time, he probably would not expect us. Unlike in BFA where the factions were at war.

Still want to know what he was up to in Tazavesh.

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107

I have to disagree about the stories. There’s definitely a lot of poetic moments in the old and the new.

Love the take on Thrall though!

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I’m not saying there’s none today, I just meant there was more back then than now :person_shrugging:

… It was also across a more spread-out field and not shoehorned to the Alliance; along with key vital moments in lore hogged by Alliance’s main characters as opposed to both factions getting their times to shine in turn, or more frequented combined sequences.

Horde sort of just exist to either be villain fodder or side-characters now … I suppose they’re at least getting some recognition in lesser storylines, however the major stories they’re relatively shunned.

109

They said a similar ordeal for BFA towards making both the war & the expansion “Morally Grey” along with ultimately revealing Sylvanas was NOT to be a Garrosh 2.0 — with the whole “Just wait & see!” sentiment.

  • We waited. :mantelpiece_clock:
  • We saw. :eyes:
  • They were full of Elekk poodoo. :poop:

So yeah, you can hardly blame the Horde playerbase for having little to no faith in Blizzard @ giving their faction some more credibility & shine. :person_shrugging:

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110

I wont get into the whole issue of how they dropped the ball on story telling. How in game they acted like the Alliance was bad for fighting the Horde. But let me ask:

Did they have a history of saying ‘no’ to morally grey and then suddenly switch to saying ‘yes?’ They have repeatedly said no to balancing content. So, when they suddenly switch to saying yes it means something has changed.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but we know what 11.1 is. We have had a pretty good idea since basically release. It is a Goblin patch with lots of Horde connections. And there is no evidence of any Alliance characters being involved. So, they seem to be fulfilling what they said.

We had them saying the Horde was going to get content and we had very not-subtle hints about a Horde story in game. So, while I can understand some level of not trusting Blizzard, the evidence has been pretty good that they were going to balance the content.

And then to circle back to:

The problem with most of the players complaining is not that they had little to no faith. It is that they actively claimed it would not happen. They weren’t just saying they lacked confidence they were acting as though it was 100% confirmed that it would not happen.

And it was not them saying ‘I am not sure Blizzard will do it well.’ It was them saying ‘Blizzard IS lying and it wont happen at all.’ It was them already calling this an Alliance expac despite it only being the first patch. I would totally understand trepidation that Blizzard will tell the story well. I just can’t agree there was any reason to think it wouldn’t happen, and lots to say it would.

We know the content is coming. I hope it is done well. I hope most Horde players will enjoy it. I know there are a few that will never be happy. But I hope most are.

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Smallioz

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Like I’ve said before though → It’s more to the prime-plots & the peak moments.

Goblin content is hardly something I would argue as a “world threat” or something to be ultimately considered as a terrible omen which would have consequences that echo upon the very world itself and/or the cosmos, lol

  • If Horde had got all their characters dealing primarily with Xal’atath, the void and took up star moments in the majority of cinematics — Then simply threw the Alliance a bone with another Mechagon patch, I doubt they’d be arguing it as suddenly fair :joy:

So yeah, although it’s cool goblins are finally getting some shine content — Horde players are still going to be irked @ their faction’s overall lack of relevance & significance in the main stories. :person_shrugging:

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113

Actually we know it can have an important consequence because Xal is apparently involved and Undermine itself is already feeling her influence.

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Couple things:

This boils down to ‘not the characters I want in the forefront when I want them.’

But more importantly, you are actually wrong. This is not, as you call it a ‘Mechagon patch.’ Blizzard has already told us we are going to Undermine because of Xal’atath. And it is MUCH larger and more involved then Mechagon was. So, the Goblins are going to be at the forefront of the main, or ‘prime,’ plot points.

That seems to be your issue with Goblins, not what Blizzard is telling us.

Tell me, during BfA were you decrying the unfairness? Horde story was dominating the main story of the Alliance. Horde story was in control. And they ‘threw the Alliance a bone’ with Mechagon. Did you call it unfair? Are you calling it unfair to the Alliance now?

Honestly, I think this expac could have been 100% Horde characters and no Alliance characters anywhere and you would still be hearing from certain Horde players about how the Horde was not getting enough.

The reality is that Undermine is a significant zone, with significant implications, a raid, and is directly tied to Xal’atath and the main story. It will have the Horde be relevant to the main stories.

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Not really, we won’t find out until the patch arrives — However there’s bound to be some plot at play with Xal’atath, that much we know for sure; obviously.

Although I doubt it’ll be revolutionary in the sense that it transcends the whole playing field against them and people go:

  • “Oh wow, the Horde sure did stick it to Xal’atath as much as Alleria damaging the Dark Heart — and the Horde absolutely showed a character of theirs who also has connection to her akin to how Alleria does!”

However for now I’d happily settle for the Horde’s faction leaders getting some traction & progressing character development — Like Anduin did.

That’s true. :dracthyr_nod:

Although, like above – I doubt it’ll be on the same level, with the same amount of character correlation & relationship held to the main villain :person_shrugging:

Yes! :joy:

  • The Horde got RE-vilified,
  • Had their new city made into a raid
  • The new faction leader (Rastakhan) killed
  • Ultimately had ANOTHER leader (Sylvanas) solidified as a Garrosh 2.0 and be dethroned
  • Then to top it off, canonically lost the 4th war / all warfronts …

Along with later having Tyrande not sign the armistice, with 0 consequences lol

Ultimately:

That’s all not a “Me” issue, that’s simply noticing the pattern & what’s there …
You have to be obviously biased or willfully ignorant & self-blinding to not see that.

I’m not saying the Alliance need less, but the Horde need more … Arguing that the Horde have 100% same fairness, credibility, acknowledgement & significance in the story, is just insanely wrong.

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116

What qualifies as revolutionary?

How much did that really matter though? It was a victory, sure. But it doesn’t stop her, at best it just slows her down. I am guessing that is basically what will happen in 11.1. Horde will get a victory, but it wont really stop her, just slow her down. I am betting it will be Midnight before we stop her. And I have this strong feeling that will be pretty Horde heavy.

Which story? Because if you want to dive into:

We can look at history. Who really had the more significant impact on the story historically? Hint, it is not Alliance.

Or are you just looking at TWW? If you are finding a pattern in a sample of one, you might want to rethink.

The problem is that when you look at the objective measures over the life of WoW it doesn’t support your claim the Horde has not had just as significant an impact. Quite the opposite. The Horde has certainly had impact and significance. And the Horde has certainly been acknowledged.

The more subjective measures, like ‘was it fair’ all depends on what you feel was worse. Do you think the villain story was worse even though it gave the Horde more content and more significance to the story? Or is being given less content and having it a jumbled mess so it can fit around the Horde story worse? Was losing one more faction leader worse than losing cities? On and on. Both sides have a lot to complain about. Which is worse is subjective. So, your feeling of fair is going to be subjective as well.

I think you missed my point. I suspect intentionally.

Your argument now is that a Goblin patch that is not fair because it is just ‘throwing the Horde a bone.’ It is more significant than Mechagon in both size and scope, by a considerable margin. Oh, and it has connection to the main story, unlike Mechagon. So, during BfA (where the Horde story was dominating the narrative) did you believe Mechagon was just ‘throwing the Alliance a bone?’

Honestly, it really feels like you are unwilling to acknowledge that the Alliance players have justifiable reasons to complain about past stories. It really feels like you can’t see beyond your own complaints about the Horde story. And, as such you feel it is unfair to the Horde.

And the Horde is getting more.

I hope it is good. I hope you like it. I really do.

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Are we really getting caught up on semantics now? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Revolutionary as in something involving or causing a complete or dramatic change in character significance & correlation throughout the storyline.

It was quite literally a crucial key element in her plans.

  • That of which the void used their bargain with Iridikron to traverse space & time into getting – Such of which even he stated it would pry Azeroth from the titans grasp, due to bringing the plans of the void forward, thus paving the way for the titans to return to face-off such a crisis & threat …

It mattered —

A LOT!!

To proudly suggest otherwise is quite the ignorant claim to make.

I would address the rest, but I feel you’re missing my own points (I suspect intentionally) – So I’ll say lets agree to disagree & leave it at that :face_exhaling:

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118

No, I was trying to highlight the inherent nature of how subjective that is. What is revolutionary for one person is not for another.

The dark heart is not destroyed, she is not dead.

And guess what, Undermine looks to be a crucial element to her plan that she is going to lose.

You are missing the point. We don’t actually know how much that set her back. It set her back, for sure. But how much? We don’t know. You are making a lot of assumptions. It is VERY possible that what happens in Undermine will set her back more.

Fair enough. The last thing I will say is: Don’t jump to conclusions about how much Undermine will matter.

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Smallioz

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120

No, but it is damaged and her plans have been severely halted.

Additionally, her efforts were able to weaken the threshold enough for Khadgar to escape the void’s grasp.

Perhaps.
Time will tell.

If Horde characters start to get more significant traction & maybe even some further in-game cinematics like the Alliance did? :partying_face: Yeah, 100% — I’ll feel like there’s finally some balancing contributions being made.

However flicking a coin in vault and saying it’s the same as the pound of flesh & treasure trove that’s before them isn’t exactly what I’d call a fair assessment – Although, like I said: We’ll see …

I’d like to see Thrall finally come to an amends with his shamanism, given Anduin did his emotional reconcile on a speed-run in comparison :face_exhaling: But if that gets ignored or suddenly ‘restored’ without much explanation or apex point of witnessing the revelation upon him, I wouldn’t entirely be surprised either.

You’re making a lot of assumptions about Undermine.

The “assumptions” that I’ve made about the Dark Heart hold more merit in consideration to how much it’s been referenced, discussed & focused upon …

And I’d say the same to you in regards to the Dark Heart :beers:

Personally, I’d just love a character amongst the Horde who holds as much relevance, connection & sort of relationship towards Xal’atath that Alleria does :person_shrugging:

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