I’ve always mained Night Elves more than anything, so, while Alliance-leaning, I always played both sides, even occassionally during Garrosh’s tenure. War of Thorns-Elegy-Teldrassil is when I finally gave up the pipe dream of being bifactional for good, and deleted my Horde alts. Then, in 8.1, Anduin crushed any sort of pride I might have had in the Alliance. So, with the Horde being something I’ll likely never play again, and the Alliance proving unworthy of my loyalty, I switched factions on a much larger, more meta scale: to FFXIV.
Nope. No matter how awful the Horde story becomes I’m literally allergic to play Alliance (it’s just that the flavor and narrative on the blue faction is so… unrelatable and artificial, it bores me to tears). Lots of times I’ve tried -and failed- to keep playing Alliance alts and at the end I always end up deleting them. Don’t ask me to play White Knight avatars for a surrealistic lawful goodie two shoes narrative cause I simply can’t stand it for long… Eventually it gets on my nerves or acts like a sleeping drug or both.
This may sound extremely ridiculous, but regular, bad and really really bad people DO exists, so in a way my mind is somehow prepared to deal with such characters. Angels belong on myths and fairy tales, and I unfortunately outgrew those a loooong time ago, ergo I won’t play Alliance. Especially under the current creative direction obssesed with making them even less realistic with each patch.
Maybe I will take a page from 3slot’s book and try FF14, but I’m still on the fence about that…
I have both a Horde and Alliance toons but it been almost a month seems I took playing serious, not from the lack of trying mind but I start getting depressed every time when do try.
I did try playing Alliance for a while it was only proven to having the same results.
I mentioned timing because it means Chronicles doesn’t outright contradict the in-game version of events, where Garrosh started the invasion and then Sylvanas took over from him.
The in-game events don’t touch upon whether Garrosh or Sylvanas started the attack on Gilneas. That was added by the short story Edge of Night, with the retconning from Chronicle affecting that, since it swings Sylvanas from post-suicide reluctantly leading because Garrosh forced her to, to someone who was eager to bring Gilneas under her dominion, and thus just as much to blame.
My mistake, then–I thought it was in the worgen starting zone, but it’s been a long time since I did that area.
I disagree that it makes her just as much to blame. It changes her from a reluctant participant to an eager one, but Garrosh was still the one who actually got up and ordered armies to attack Gilneas.
Again, we got onto this tangent because Valkrowzer was the latest in a long line of posters on this forum who talk about the invasion of Gilneas as if it had been planned and carried out by Sylvanas and Sylvanas alone. Even if it was something that was previously on her mind as a thing to get around to sometime, she still wasn’t the one who chose to set it in motion or mobilized the troops. She took over command of an invasion that had already been started by Garrosh, and his driving part in it should be acknowledged if you want to be accurate.
With Chronicle, for accuracy, we should also acknowledge that Sylvanas had motivation to invade Gilneas more than just because Garrosh pushed a fight to grab a port. Additionally, Sylvanas took action in Gilneas that were not only independent of Garrosh’s orders, but against them, so the events at Gilneas go beyond just who started it. And lastly, from an in character perspective such as Genn’s, there’s nothing to indicate in lore that the Alliance even knew Garrosh was the one who brought Sylvanas into it.
Look, Amadis, I’m honestly not sure what you’re arguing with me about. It feels like you’re trying to force me to admit that Sylvanas did something to give Genn a grudge against her, or that you think I’m saying she Did Nothing Wrong™. If it helps, I’ll happily state that Genn’s attitude toward her is perfectly understandable and that her tactics in attacking Gilneas were questionable at best, especially from an Alliance perspective.
Unless your position is that Sylvanas was the one who planned, started, and carried out the invasion of Gilneas single-handedly, and no one else’s role in that entire thing deserves mention, then you are not an example of the viewpoint that I am disputing.
I’d played Horde first, way back in the early days of Vanilla. Like every edgy tryhard young adult, I was an undead warlock. But I was lured to the Alliance in short order by my rl friends, and Alliance is where I stayed all the way till Cata. At which point I took an extended hiatus,
Around the end of Legion.start of BfA I was pulled back. But this time I decided to try Horde. At first, I enjoyed the change. I began to see them not as the villains, but as the plucky underdogs trying to survive.
Then Teldrassil. I’m firmly in the “genocide” camp of what happened there. But… it was war. I told myself.
But there was one tipping point. One thing I could not get past. And its name was Nathanos Blightcaller. I found him insufferable in Legion. I was, storyline wise, someone who saved the world numerous times. I’d faced down Deathwing, slain the Lich King, bright down Garrosh Hellscream… what was this little peice of crap to look down on me? He’s done nothing of any importance.
Yeah yeah, I know, human ranger lord, blah blah. again. NOTHING of importance. Then it became obvious I’d get more of him in BfA. So I decided to research him, maybe there was something in his backstory to tell me why he was so haughty.
What I saw was a 12-year-old’s self-insert fanfic made canon. That Blightcaller I killed, tore the head off of and presented? He totally faked it guys? How? SHUT UP HE’S SO COOL! Alright… and Sylvanas has a thing for him. What. And he can totally one-shot better lore characters because HE’S SO COOL GUYS!
So yeah… I switch back to the Alliance. Wyrmbane may be a bit dull, but I’d take him over Nathanos. Hell, I’d take getting quests of Gilbert Godfried with my volume on full blast while wearing headphones over Nathanos.
Though I’m sure Valkrowzer can speak for themself, what I was responding to was in two parts. First, as I first pointed out, Valkrowzer doesn’t ever say solo (nor imply, as you said in your response to me). Second, the bolded part, Valkrowzer never brings up who started it. These are both concepts you brought up to draw attention to - the truthful - fact that Garrosh wanted that port.
What I am arguing is that Garrosh’s involvement, as far as it affects Genn’s motivation for his attacking Sylvanas in Legion, is irrelevant. And before Chronicle we had years of people who would defend Sylvanas by saying it was entirely Garrosh’s fault and Sylvanas was forced into the matter. And now by canon this is no longer true. While wording that allows for dismissal of Garrosh’s involvement annoys you, what annoys me is the feeling of people trying to use Garrosh as a bullfighting flag to try to draw attention away from Sylvanas’ actions at Gilneas. It is not so much that I am arguing with you, as much as I want to keep it clear in over all discussion that it is ultimately Sylvanas’ actions that are responsible for Genn’s response to them.
Not faction, but it did make me race change to Forsaken. Might as well put my money where my mouth is on my fervor that they shouldn’t be gutted on the alter of Horde apologetics.
Also, they look great butchering Night Elf filth in the warfront gear.
I played both factions, up until the end of Legion. Theramore was one thing, but Teldrassil was the last straw for me. So, wanting absolutely no part in that, I immediately turned my blood elves into void elves - as soon as I unlocked them.
Is “Sylvanas strolling over to Gilneas and trying to massacre the Gilneans” an accurate description of how things went down, in your opinion? If so, why?
I believe it’s relevant to the question of whether Valkrowzer’s description was accurate.
I get that other people may have done that in the past, but I’m not denying that Sylvanas was involved, if that helps. I just dispute pinning all of the blame for the entire invasion solely on her. The wording is exaggerated to make the whole thing sound (even) worse.
In my opinion, it is. Sylvanas and the Forsaken came down (strolling, if you will) through Silverpine Forest to attack Gilneas with the intention of massacring the Gilneans, as we witness her describe while spying on her in the Worgen starting experience quest “The Hunt For Sylvanas”:
General Warhowl says: You sound very confident, your Majesty. I seriously hope you do not plan to use the Plague. Garrosh has explicitly forbidden it.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: You'd do well to watch your tone, General. Neither you nor Garrosh have anything to worry about. We've ceased all production of the Plague, as he ordered. We'd never deploy it without his permission.
General Warhowl says: I will deliver my report to our leader, then. By your leave, my lady.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Go with honor, General. Warhowl exits the cathedral.
High Executor Crenshaw says: My Lady! Should I order my men to stop development of the Plague? Or are we to continue as planned?
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: What kind of question is that? Of course we're deploying the Plague as planned! Let the Gilneans enjoy their small victory. Not even their bones will remain by tomorrow.
High Executor Crenshaw says: As you wish!
I also wanted to note, it does help. I know I’m being persistent, but I also want to clear the air and say I don’t think you’re being unreasonable or malicious, and I hope I don’t come off that way towards you, either.
And you do not believe the fact that Garrosh was the one who actually started the attack before Sylvanas even arrived–remember, this has not been outright contradicted by Chronicles–is worth mentioning in order to get an accurate picture of the situation? Because I happen to think that’s a pretty darned important detail that has been left out. I don’t understand why you AND Valkrozer insist on behaving as if that part does not exist.
Worth mentioning? Sure. Worth decrying someone not mentioning it? Not particularly. And specifically, once again, in the context of it being brought up because of Genn’s mentality towards Sylvanas and his reason for attacking Sylvanas in Legion, the whole picture is not relevant, as Genn doesn’t care and probably hasn’t really ever thought about Garrosh. From a metatextual level, sure, all lore facts are worth noting. But in the context of the discussion, it’s not relevant in this case.