Did Liadrin Lie to Thalryssa?

Why would Rexxar reference an event years prior to BFA?

This was the bit of dialogue he said:

She once made a choice to spare us from her father’s tyranny. I respected that decision, and how difficult it was.

But fighting against the Horde Tyranny is a no-go.

But she could not forgive what Hellscream did to Theramore. She turned her hatred against all the horde.

Why would anyone ever forgive Hellscream or the Horde (who continued to serve Hellscream) after that?

She went too far. Killed too many. Her quest for vengeance must be ended.

Is he still talking about Jaina here or someone else? Also, Teldrassil??

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She didn’t kill many. She sent a lot to prison but the only two she killed were Aethas’s bodyguards. It is another example of an event where the horde is supposed to be angry but Blizzard waters down the event to the point where it makes the horde look like hypocrites for being angry, particularly since Aethas did know Garrosh had used Dalaran to steal the Divine Bell. He literally goes groveling back to Dalaran in Legion, giving away an heirloom of the BE royal line, to buy his way back into Dalaran.

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All faction bullcrap aside, it was a weird line.

I mean, the High/Blood Elves basically fought a bunch of trolls over territory, then ignored the second war Horde until it was a problem for them, then got wrecked by the Scourge.

Night Elves fought the War of the Satyr and the War of the Shifting Sands at some point, both of which were probably closer to not letting the world get wrecked than torching the Amani. Then they were instrumental in saving the world in the Third War, though the High Elf non-participation at that point is… understandable given their “wiped out by zombie apocalypse” status at the time.

I mean, a more accurate line might be regarding their shared heritage of old empire magical nobility, as opposed to the tree-hugging, magic hating peasant revolt that still haven’t figured out how to build proper cities. But that might have been a sensitive topic, given the whole “consorting with Daedra Demons” thing.

…Would Pelinal Whitestrake been a night elf in WoW?

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Pelinal Whitestrike the first Male Warden

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I just assume it was a poorly written racial boasting than a lie.

I’m inclined to agree with this. Like how when you’re outside Suramar, she mentions that the night elves are more suited to forest campaigns, and don’t know about cities?

It’s related I think to the fact that high elves are based on high elves from D&D, and night elves are based on wood elves. Or, if Elder Scrolls is your thing, the altmer and bosmer. There’s just huge cultural differences.

I don’t even think she knows she’s doing it. It’s probably just reflexive. I imagine a night elf would say something similar about blood elves, maybe talking about “reckless use of magic”, somehow ignoring that that “reckless magic” has saved the world several times over.

I’m slightly less inclined to believe it’s a case of writers forgetting something that fundamental. I genuinely think that’s a case of “…right, she’s a high elf, she sometimes…right, she’s sometimes like that.”

You know, I had thought about that at one point. While I don’t agree with the mechanical decision to do that*, lorewise, I had to concede that it made sense. The history of the Nightborne goes Zin’Azshari and highborne --> bubble --> Khadgar. Given the choice between elves who like magic and elves who don’t like magic and aren’t welcoming you with open arms? The magic using elf would probably hang with the other magic using elves .

…I don’t think Liadrin is shrewd enough to have thought that, though. I legitimately think that it’s just what I mentioned, with elf tribalism.

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I bet Alliance players would have complained about having to help the ungrateful jerks that Tyrande hated.

Have BEs (or HEs) ever even talked about NEs elsewhere in the game? I can’t remember any racist comments made about NEs in other expansions (but it’s been a long time since I leveled, and I might have missed or forgotten something).

In context it sounds like he’s talking about Jaina personally cutting a swath through the entire Horde and all its races, and like it’s still happening or has happened very recently at the time he speaks. It doesn’t make sense as a reference to an isolated (although nasty) bit of violence specifically targeted at Blood Elves a few years ago.

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Not exactly racist, but, i’ve seen some texts on wowpedia and pages like that and some comic pages here and there, and the whole “we’ve been fighting while you night elves have been sleeping” seems to be a common thought on Blood Elves.

There is also the time when the highborne were accepted into Night Elf society, blood elves were pissed, since they are the descendants of highbornes that got exiled for using magic.

So there are still some scars in both societies, but it seems Umbric and Shandris got along well, i wonder how void elves interact with other races now that they’re back into the alliance.

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Most recently there were issues of cooperation between the two groups in Suramar. With the Blood Elves putting a Troll statue saying ‘your ancestors’ at the Night Elf camp.

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I know, but that’s the same storyline that has the line from Liadrin. I wanted to know whether this was an established thread running through the game before then, or if it was just dreamed up for the Suramar plot.

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Tyrande showed up in the Suramar questline to help save Thalyrssa’s people and home.

Thalyrssa in return joined in with the Horde with burning Tyrande’s home down along with a lot of her people. Then was part of setting Stormwind on fire, where Night Elf refugees had been given sanctuary.

Any concerns over this allied race set sail long ago.

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I guess? Liadrin’s line was well after those events which involved Insurrection and other Legion content.

Well in the quest Danassian Intrusion, we have this from The Burning Crusade.

Night elves? Here? Those rats!

And in the Warcraft Encyclopedia from Vanilla.

Nevertheless, due to their shared history and philosophical differences, the three groups do not share a close relationship. Indeed, night elves regard high elves and blood elves with suspicion, disgust, or outright hostility.

Are we really beating this horse again?

Liadrin’s point of view is justified given that the descendants of the exiled Quel’dorei have had no real knowledge of what the Kal’dorei have been up to between the events of the Exile and the Reign of Chaos. From the Blood Elves’ biased point of view, they’re the ones holding up civilization in the East.

From their point of view the Kal’dorei are nothing more than the descendants of peasants looking to deny what defines a civilization, knowledge and the pursuit of magical power, who banned their practise of the arcane for fearful and superstitious reasons and then unjustly cast them out to suffer and die.

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It will be interesting to see if the Void Elves continue to be a noticeable addition or get forgotten about.

There is a gathering of mixed Void Elf and High Elf npcs gathering at times in places in the Mage Quarter of Stormwind.

When I first noticed it I had been concerned that Blizz was going to over the course of the patches this expansion slowly transform all the High Elves into Void Elves but I haven’t seen anything of the sort going on. It seems to be a random mix of 3-4 Elves split between Void and High that changes periodically back and forth.

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I’m not sure if you guys noticed, but 90% of the faction related dialogue in Legion and even more so in BfA was dragged straight out of the forums without regard to the actual lore. Possibly in the hopes that said dialogue would give the playerbase a sense realism and of being listened to and represented.

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I think it’s that thing with cousins who both, like, move to different sides of the country, maybe getting jobs in the same industry.

You’ve got that pretentious New York snob who thinks they’re the bees knees because they do Broadway every night (Tony nods, and maybe an award). Then, you’ve got that arrogant Los Angeles fixture who think they’re the cat’s meow because they’ve been in blockbuster after critically acclaimed blockbuster (Oscar nods, and maybe an award).

New York guy thinks Hollywood’s a sellout. Hollywood guy thinks Broadway can’t cut it in the big leagues. Both of them convinced they’re actually better than the other, and will gladly share that with you if you ask.

Meanwhile, to everyone else, they’re both actors, and to be honest, they’re astonishingly similar on paper.

Peasant. Snob. Balanced. Civilized. You. Me.

That’s what I think’s going on there.

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Traditionally High Elves main purpose has been to serve as Alliance NPC mage figures.

Interestingly enough during Warlords of Draenor, that position was being increasingly co-opted by Night Elves. And Night Elf mages played a significant role in both the War of Thorns and the Evacuation of Darnassus.

They were however totally absent in the Second Siege of Orgrimmar, and pretty much absent during this expansion which supports my contention that most of them died during the above events.

What she told her was true - from a certain point of view.

Indeed.

If she was referring to the events in her lifetime, or even the events that she just feels matter most, it is not so much a lie as her perspective. And after Tyrande’s justified yet petty insult about “Elune’s wisdom” towards Thalyssra, Liadrin was speaking to a sympathetic ear.

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More importantly as someone who’s totally familiar with what it’s like to be a member of a race addicted to arcane magic and the consequences of withdrawal, Liadrin herself WAS that sympathetic ear. Tyrande on the other hand was acting out her personal feelings of betrayal and issues she’d been carrying around in her head for 130 centuries.

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The Night Elves also mock the Blood Elves by putting mana vials in their camp with notes that say “wouldn’t want you to get the shakes”.

Both groups clearly enjoy sniping at each other.

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