Wait… what?!
That line’s worded a bit weirdly but she’s saying Tyrande didn’t do it for that reason. I think the rest of the post’s context is clear enough that what she’s actually doing is just the same kind of heroic act that the game constantly shows us as being good, even though the game’s apparently trying to say “no don’t” this time for some reason.
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But I don’t see that the common good is what her sacrifice was for. I pointed out in my previous post that what she did was a good way to try and a chance to personally kill Sylvanas, but not such a good way to try and stop the thread to the world.
But you deleted it, and I am not going to waste my time repeating points . If you want to address it, you can. If you just want deflect from it. Well, good luck with that.
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And again, I have to repeat myself. Tyrande isn’t using the Power of Elune to slaughter all the Forsaken and Horde until every last one of them pays for what the Banshee Queen did.
That would be vengeance.
Currently, at the [time] of this cinematic, Slyvanas is still a threat to the world, she still has to be defeated somehow. Tyrande willing to sacrifice herself to stop Slyvanas, and only Slyvanas, “should” be seen as an act of heroism more so than a vengeance.
Again, and again, what if this were an Old God?
N’zoth attacked Stormwind and burned it to the ground, the alliance forces rallied their troops to march upon Ny’alotha.
During the battle of N’zoth, Anduin “sacrifices” himself, with the power of the Light, to vanquish N’zoth once and for all!!
WOW Anduin is a hero!!! What a champion of the Light…
This same scenario could be played out for Slyvanas and Tyrande, yet Tyrande is mocked up to vengeance…
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When he’s awake Malfurion is the actual ruler of the Night Elves. It was he who mandated Illidan’s imprisonment, his later banishment, and he who sentenced the Highborne to exile. The game makes it Tyrande for PVP award acheivements when that was still relevant but lore generally puts Mal in charge when he’s on stage.
He was also the one in charge during the War of Thorns until he was nearly killed by Saurfang.
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I think it is sort of personal between some devs and Tyrande as a character for somereason I am not aware of. I saw once an interview related to the War Crimes book: https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/blizzplanet-interview-world-of-warcraft-war-crimes-by-christie-golden
I think Tyrande as evidenced by what she did in that particular scene that you referenced, she wants Garrosh dead and she has been charged with doing, just as Baine has been, doing the very best she can to make sure that this orc receives what she and many others perceive as the only … the ONLY real justice.
Everything else to her would just be ridiculous; and so I do not think she would stoop to anything illegal or immoral; but if it is there, she is going to use it; and she is also prepared to see that from Baine.
So I won’t say she will stop at nothing; but I think she will use every tool in her kit to make sure that she gets the verdict that she wants.
So, you can get the general idea of how the current story influencers see the characters and the theme.
In general they seem to be nepotism at full force. Only when it comes to their favourite characters suffering matter. Only for selected few there is justice. Only selected few are to define how other must think about behave, and so on.
Which is especially peculiar in the case of Golden that I mentioned at some point, specifically how she promoted the article with a certain idea, only to ignore another part of it at the same time.
Another peculiar bit about the trial.
Ian Bates This one is … I’m going to make it as spoiler-free as possible … The August Celestial’s verdict (without giving it away) is quite odd, considering what Garrosh has done and we know he is going to do in “Warlords of Draenor”. Do you think they will regret their decision? – the Celestials, once we find out about the Iron Horde. Or can they see into the future? … like some people have theorized. Or do they want him to go to Draenor?
We can’t really comprehend how they think, and I won’t go so far as to say they see the future; because I honestly don’t know one way or the other; but I do think that they are wiser than we are and they are unburdened by things that we are. So they are actually as impartial as impartial can be.
Which is ridiculous is several occasions:
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there are character that can be as old as the celestials if not older. People’s way of thinking and dealing with the situations might differ from 20 years to 30, to 50. Here we’re talking about 10k+ which is hard to comprehend how much that is and how such beings can see the reality.
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in comparison to creatures related to OGs or naaru the capability of celestials to comprehend the reality is comically small.
Yet the characters who are only useful as a source of burrowed power here are presented as paragons of virtue.
(but actually it’s just an excuse to get the desired outcome and not explain or be resposible for the consequences).
gl hf
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he ´s a co ruler…not the actual ruler…if tyrande says NOPE…he can´t do anything.
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This is simply untrue. Malfurion takes part in the political affairs of the night elves when needed, but Tyrande is the de jure leader.
Tyrande organized a new army called the Sentinels. This army is still directed by the Sisters of Elune, and thus Tyrande has been sole head of the night elf government throughout the ensuing millennia. - The Warcraft Encyclopedia, Night Elves
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Tyrande has NEVER overruled Malfurion’s rulings.
Does Illidan’s release count? Or what was it like there? “I go - I forbid - I go”?
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She has…three times to be exactly
She said we free Illidan, malfurion tried to speak to her and she answered with “ONLY ELUNE CAN FORBIDE ME ANYTHING”
the second time she was going to save Shandris (Malfurion wanted her not to)
the third time, she threatened Thrall in shadow rising, although he tried to hold her back, but she glanced at him and he went back because of it.
Malfurion never overruled Tyrande…but she overruled him a few times in lore. Also, Malfurion had to convince Tyrande to sacrifice Nordrassil…she was actually against it, but he convinced her.
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Well, arguably those aren’t really examples of “rulings” so much as her rebuffing his opinion in the moment. It’s Tyrande going to personally do things herself, Malfurion not wanting her to, and her saying she’s doing it anyway. None of them are her telling him he’s going to do something he doesn’t want to because she’s in charge, or vice-versa.
When it comes to how their society runs itself, there’s never really been any overt conflict portrayed between them. Even with Illidan’s release, though she insisted that it needed to be done at the time and under the circumstances, she’s never shown that she seriously disagreed with Malfurion’s reasons for having him imprisoned. Though circumstances never allowed for it, if Illidan proved insufficiently reformed once the Legion was beaten, she may have been fine with them chucking him right back into jail.
Nordrassil is also a tricky thing because it wasn’t just the source of their immortality. It’s a World Tree with ties to the Emerald Dream, a bond that had been entrusted to the druids as part of their pact with the Aspects (especially Ysera), so the handling of Nordrassil was rather specifically the Archdruid’s responsibility and decision to make by virtue of that arrangement. He convinced her, but it was never implied that such convincing was necessary for him to be “allowed” to do it.
Such disagreements aren’t necessarily qualified as one exerting his or her power as ruler of their people over the other as “second-in-command.” They co-rule, but each has responsibilities specific to their respective roles as Archdruid and High Priestess with which the other doesn’t try to interfere.
“Only the Goddess may forbid” Tyrande in her capacity as High Priestess and leader of the Sentinel Army, but then the same goes for Malfurion. As top-ranking, most powerful Archdruid and leader of the Cenarion Circle there’s been no indication that he’s obligated to submit to her judgment in matters relating to duidism and the preservation of Nature.
Insofar as how they share regular day-to-day governance, it’s hard to say because non-human races don’t tend to get much attention in that area. They’re prone to be disproportionately represented by the interests of their military and Class organizations (i.e. where they fit in the Alliance or Horde “tech trees.”)
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Just gonna say we are still missing the message Elune gives through Tyrande right before The Tear relic is left, as that’s still encrypted. I think a lot of our questions are likely to be solved with this particular plot point with what is communicated.
“The road to Hell is easily travelled. It’s the arrival and the accommodations that take their toll.”
huh, I’ve never heard that proverb that way before. Usually the proverb goes “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and the road back is paved with humility.” which means something wildly different than your use of the proverb. it’s supposed to be how even when we try to do good we can end up doing bad. which is far more in context with the subject matter.
Maybe vengence isn’t what’s best for Tyrande, and she’s blinded by it. Maybe Elune is just walking her off the ledge because she doesn’t want Tyrande to sacrifice herself for revenge. I would like to believe this is the truth as opposed to Elune not wanting Tyrande to win.
That proverb you quoted is correct. I was just using a book quote to highlight that the biggest price for evil is usually hidden.
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What that would be would be genocide against innocents. It isn’t at all clear that killing people who haven’t wronged you is even vengeance, but just racist hatred. Pointing out that she the didn’t do that is hardly any sign that she isn’t going for vengeance, just that she didn’t turn into an evil monster.
You seem to thing her being willing to sacrifice herself makes it heroic. But if you sacrifice yourself for you own desires, that isn’t heroism.
Her approach isn’t about stopping Sylvanas for the greater good, like a hero. She might have been able to stop Sylvanas or at least save the Sigil, if she hadn’t been obsessed with her being the one to kill Sylvasnas. She literally puts others in danger because of this.
Everything is about Tyrande getting back at her. I mean, she basically admits it. She herself calls it vengeance.
[Deleted is a long hypothetical of Anduin sacrificing himself to stop an old got that has destroyed stormwind.]
Well, you brought up Anduin because, in situations like this he thinks of everyone and is concerned with stopping the threat, rather than his emotional desire to get back at the party. Tyrande is, more or less, doing the opposite.
If he were to go off on his own, rather than cooperate with others (who were also wronged) to do the best job of actually stopping the old god. And instead selfishly feels he should kill the old god without any help from others, then yes, that would be vengeance.
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Anduin. M … no.
It is good to think about the common good, to follow the “right” path. But only as long as you struggle with those to whom you are … indifferent? Not sure if this is the correct word.
What is Anduin doing with the Horde? Forgives and gives a chance. He gives the night elves refuge. Okay, if all sides play “right” then this is the “right” decision.
What did Anduin do to prevent the Fifth War? Believe the words of the Horde “The Horde has changed”?
…
I’m not doing well.
…
Why should the night elves pay for peace with the Horde when they suffer the most from it? Of course, “even” distribution of resources and territories is “correct”. Yes. Yes…
Why should only the resources of northern Kalimdor be “evenly” distributed? The rest of the Alliance must also suffer for peace with the Horde. The Horde must suffer for peace with the Alliance! And at the same time suffer in such a way that it pleases the offended in the Alliance.
The Horde is playing “wrong.” Yes.
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You know good and well this isn’t true.
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Technically, He was the defacto leader of the rebellion against Azshara and of their exodus to Nordrassil, up until prior going into his hibernation. Tyrande and her priestesses only took up leadership in the interrum…
But really, there’s a lot of personal misconceptions on how the Kaldorei government works. It’s not as cut and dry as a “Pure Matriarchy” as everyone likes to describe it. There’s no real word to describe their joint-rule except for a Partnership. It’s legally a diarchy but it’s more like a motherly and fatherly relationship.
Frankly, Malfurion isn’t really interested in governing the day-to-day aspect of Kaldorei society and is happy to leave that to Tyrande.