Can someone help me understand all the strong opinions about Odyn? I feel like I am missing something. I played the Stormheim zone & dungeon, and he seemed like an uncontroversial character. Is there other content that I am missing?
Odyn wanted a kinda-sorta undead army of his own but needed beings that could reach into the shadowlands to retrieve spirits. He tried looking for willing applicants but nobody would volunteer to become undead, so he decided he’d convert people by force. Helya, his adopted daughter, objected to this so he inflicted it on her as punishment for disobeying him, making her the first valkyr. Then he rewrote history by telling everyone she did it to herself out of arrogance and that he was saving her.
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Basically if Odyn decides something is a good idea (he fully believes he’s the smartest/wisest in the room at all times), he doesn’t care if you consent or not you will do as he command’s and he will make you suffer if you resist his initial request (which really isn’t a request he’s just giving you the chance to acknowledge his brilliance by consenting).
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odyn was right
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This is the same fanbase were so many slapped the label of “evil” on the Naaru Xe’ra for doing less than what Odyn did, so the odds of mercy for Odyn from fans and writers is not good.
While Odyn has done wrong and needs to be called out, I agree it doesn’t make sense for the Aspects to stand by and let that happen unchallenged (especially since they don’t know what he did to Helya). And Vyranoth herself has been party to similar things. In their attempts at “moral greyness”, the writers make a lot of characters hypocrites (Jaina, Vyranoth, Irridikron, Sylvanas, Illidan…)
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sylvanas wasnt a hypocrite imo
she always said what she felt was to her advantage in any situation even if it wasnt true.
she was consistent
To us? not directly
But he’s basically been a colossal peackock in the background lore, not up to including erasing archival knowledge of the Black empire and participating in Historical Revision, and then there’s the whole Helya thing.
In accordance to the Player character, he’s basically that really jovial guy at work who can get a little intense at times, and then when he gets fired you hear all the horror stories come out of the woodwork.
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For one, Sylvanas rages over what Arthas did to her… only to force Delaryn to undergo the same thing while trying to force it on Derek. Textbook hypocrite. One bright spot in Shadowlands was Sylvanas admitting she’d become Arthas.
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Playerbase: Odyn is bad for taking away Helya’s free will.
Also playerbase: ::blithely ignores every single time Helya does this herself, which are countless – and also inflicted against the players themselves!::
it’s fine if you think odyn’s a jerk but as least don’t be a hypocrite about the reason.
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I actually disagree. She is a b!##$ and a liar but I dont view her as hypocritical. Because she admits what she is and she seems to have a lot of self hate. Remember she committed suicide after Arthas?
“What joy is there in this curse?”
She views herself as a monster, she hates Arthas and she hates herself. She is a hate driven character. Suicide would’ve been the appropriate end for the character but since it was in a book or something instead of ingame and she was popular at the time, blizzard dragged her on until she was well and truly ruined. Plus they took away Baine and Thrall in Cata so they had to leave Horde at least someone.
Problem with Sylvanas fans is they had no idea what the character actually was, her personality and all that. They just project what they want her to be onto the character.
- Some think she is a freedom fighter for Lordaeron when she just says whatever suits her cause and gladly kills humans on the land.
- Some thought she was sorry deep down and loyal to the Horde.
- Some think she is this gothic emo waifu when she has always been moody and prone to outbursts, she had outbursts all the time.
She was always the b@#$ queen, but she also knew who she was. She never pretended in her own mind she was a hero, she pretended in order to fool people to her cause. So I don’t see her as hypocritical.
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“Drastically blowing out of proportion what Odyn did to Helya”
Is this a joke? And yes, the Titan’s have been, apathetic to the fate of the mortal races in lore since Wrath of the Lich King when it has suited them to be so. This isn’t new, this isn’t a recent retcon. It’s literally been the lore for fifteen years. Sure, they’ll help mortals out and be friendly when it suits them, but when their lives are getting in the way of their plan? They will end them, en masse.
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Who exactly are you debating with? Does anyone act like Helya isn’t a villain? The fact is, is that Odyn made Helya into what she is when he forced the transformation onto her and she rebelled. Before everything, she was a loyal servant to the Titan’s vision, like the other keepers. It was Odyn wanting to turn Azeroth into his own personal playpen under the guise of serving the Titan’s will that created Helya as she became.
This drive to defend Odyn is honestly funny. I really have to wonder where it comes from. Is it some sort of reflexive need to defend patriarchal authority figures or something?
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Also going to add the titans were never the original gods of Warcraft. They always “ordered the universe” from what I remember. Back in Warcraft 1 or something I think there was a hell that demons came from but I don’t think titans existed in the lore then.
The older versions of the lore are foggy in my memory nowadays, but IIRC the Titans were always shown to have aided in the “ordering” of the universe and helping the creators of Azeroth evolve but it was the Light that represented the actual origin of the universe. The “light of creation”.
Which is still roughly the canon we have now, just with alot more details included.
Common characterization commentary on the topic.
For me, the hypocrisy lies in her forcing people through the same fate that she herself abhors. Not just using Val’kyr in Cataclysm.
For example, the commander of an invading army that includes undead decimates an elven kingdom. Then they spitefully force the female ranger commanding the elven forces to watch the destruction of her capital city and slaughter of its inhabitants. Am I talking about Sylvanas or Delaryn?
Someone acknowledging their hypocrisy doesn’t mean they cease to be a hypocrite.
That said, I otherwise agree with your comment.
The Titans were introduced to the setting in Warcraft 3. They ordered the world, but as benevolent protectors (literally called benevolent by the source book). The Titans were benevolent protectors in the lore from twenty-three years ago until sixteen years ago. Wrath retconned the lore. An old retcon is still a retcon.
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I’m aware of his past. I specified “for a while” because it seems like he might have improved to some degree.
They’ve both done bad stuff, yeah. I see most people acknowledge that.
Odyn is a proof WoW fanbase can’t handle actual morally gray characters.
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I’ve recently really wanted to see someone play with this troupe.
You’re no better than me, “Hero”. Oh sure, I may have stolen and killed, lied and betrayed, but I NEVER pretended to be something I wasn’t.
…I mean not unless it was a component of the aforementioned lies and betrayals. But that’s different.
Or there’s simply nothing to like about the guy
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