totally agree
Ya they should take netherwalk off the gcd and make it immune cc, kinda sad he didnt realize it had a speed boost cause of all the cc. The vr root break would be nice. Oh and give us our 3rd spec.
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This mentality of having it out for a spec or people who play a given spec is half of the problem with this playerbase.
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I made a whole post about the toxic hate DH gets because it’s literally insane lol
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The problem is that the mentality espoused by the person I quoted is not uncommon amongst the playerbase across various classes. People draw conclusions about other classes or specs and assume things don’t change. Then they assume people asking for positive changes just want to be #1 on meters, when often you’ll see a lot of complaints about playstyle or mechanical interactions.
Case in point, Havoc DH. Regardless of if you’re for or against Mover playstyle, the talent shift for Havoc in 10.2 was pretty significant, and Mover as a playstyle has continued to define Havoc’s success. It adds a layer that raises the skill floor and the skill ceiling, but it’s also a point of contention with the playerbase since damage interactions based on regular forced usage of mobility are not exactly a common mechanic across the classes. People remember it dominating in Legion with an overly simplistic playstyle or they remember it being oppressive in DF due to Blizzard’s inaction, and they kneejerk into “let it rot” responses like we’ve seen.
Other more prominent examples:
-Mage. People can handle nerfs, but what happened to Frost and Arcane boiled down to net negative playstyle changes.
-Hunter. BM was known as “the starter spec of WoW” for years. It’s not quite that simple as a spec anymore, but people insist that it was overly simplistic at one point in time, so it should always get shoved into the woodchipper if it outperforms the other two specs. Gotta be honest, people who think current Survival or Marksman are harder than BM to any significant extent confuse me greatly.
More examples exist, but that’s not really my point or your point anyways. People really need to understand that tuning boils down to the whims of Blizzard from season to season or even hotfix to hotfix, but playstyles are usually what specs are stuck with for a bit unless major lashback occurs, and even then there’s no guarantee of a fix.
It’s literally always been the same. If anything, it got easier through the years as the reliance on Fel Rush spam has been lowered.
Early iterations of Momentum was “Fel Rush all the time”. Inertia is Fel Rush every Immolation Aura.
That still doesn’t change the concept of the playstyle. It still clashes with encounter design, and it’ll keep clashing because the encounters are not designed thinking of Havoc, and they should not. And exactly because of this, because it’s something that is never going to be fixed, it should go away and replaced with something else that works with the established encounter design.
I think this is mostly because of one reason. BM doesn’t cast anything. It’s a ranged melee.
It’s a ranged DPS that doesn’t care about positioning one bit and doesn’t face any of the restrictions that both melee and range have (getting parried and in melee range for melee, casts/running out of range or prediction for ranged).
It’s definitely one of the easiest if not the easiest spec to play in the game simply because of that.
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It has enough rotational maintenance now that I simply don’t care what people think of it. I’m tired of “ur spec ez, u deserve to suck” as a mentality being applied in general.
MM and SV are not realistically any more difficult than BM.
That’s basically what I said.
The sad part is even if there was only a single person working on DH they are doing a far worse job than your average forum poster could do.
In less then a day I bet most your high ranked DH players could come up with a far better design for this spec and its not even their job
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This comment is funny, especially since it’s coming from a warrior, one of the strongest burst classes in PvP!
It would be interesting to check the arena rankings to see how many DHs are in the top compared to other classes. If, according to you, they’re that strong, then the top ranks should be full of DHs.
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Spoiler alert:
Very few
People have prejudices for sure
We need a dev with their finger on the pulse though
Maybe they should confer with a council of the best of the best in mythic/raid/pvp gladiators and hear their opinions?
To be fair BM hunter has half our rotational buttons lol
You mean the top 1%? We’re here because of them XD
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We’re here because of the 99% that don’t even play DH and still are crying that it’s a “one button” spec and broken, because they got crapped on in legion or BFA or for a couple seasons in DF
MVQDH is rank 1 and he made a great post a while back about the issues we have now.
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Yes and no, the way others see us certainly affects it but it is undeniable that the Devs have been following the trend of making the class more “complex”, more “engaging”, and this is something that has been pushed from BfA by the movers and the minmaxers that play the class.
Classes should be designed for the core population, not minmaxers and top 1%s, the core player base of the class are the ones who should feel satisfied. That’s why I don’t want minmaxers and tip 1%s deciding what’s good for the class.
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and left this note on his discord last week:
quick update:
not rly streaming/qin till theres a balance patch
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I totally agree with the first part of your reply. They’ve given all classes/specs way too many utility, defensive, and healing tools in their kit and everyone, especially inside PvP, has suffered for it. There is little identity remaining, roles are dead, CC is out of control and healers are tanks.
However, the game literally needs to be balanced at the 1% level. This is because it trickles down to a much more balanced experience for the 99% across all classes/specs.
Also, the 1% knows the specs better than anyone else, most often including developers! They can and will exploit things in ways average players wouldn’t think of or can’t even replicate. This leads to broken specs, unfair PvP and massive/harsh nerfs.
Better to listen to the players with thousands of hours experience than the average joe that doesn’t know what they’re even talking about. Too many ignorant voices to weed through as well
It’s the devs job to listen to everyone and figure how to make the spec fun and engaging and competitive for everyone. Obviously a very challenging goal, but that’s why some people just play games and do not work designing them.
Personally I don’t care if something is broken at 1%, it seems irrelevant to me because that level is something that few people handle or want to handle, it’s at the levels below where most people are where it has to feel balanced and fun. If you balance for 1% what is below may not be right, it’s like when you balance the general damage considering the multiple damage windows of the DH, the one who masters it is fine, the one who doesn’t is not only not good but is terribly mediocre. I insist, 1% doesn’t matter.
wrong, they understand what they play and minmaxing, a Dev is not only dedicated to that, he is dedicated to defining changes in the gameplay, whether they are radical or not, when changing the rules of the game the 1% players have to review from scratch, and many people will reject changes not because they are bad but because they do not like the new design direction.
Many classes have gone through massive redesigns throughout their life, the DH hasn’t done it yet but if the time comes to do so I don’t want the top 1% to object to the redesign and stagnate us in what they understand. I’m not saying they’re all square-headed, but I don’t trust them because the game is the way it is because of them.
Let the creative devs do their job and then bring in the minmaxers to do the numbers, but don’t put them in charge of designing.
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I feel like something was lost in translation
I’m not saying make something that only caters to the top 1% of the player base.
I would have said design a new mythic ONLY raid, if that was what I was saying lol.
What I am trying to say (and apparently failing to articulate) if that:
Top players have valuable insights and huge chunks for experience to validate their opinions.
If you make something that balances out at the top it balances out at the lower levels too. It’s an inverted pyramid and the foundation that the rest balances upon.
And Jesus, just look any 10 general discussion forum posts if you need evidence of why the average voice is borderline capital R
We’re supposed to be the mobility class but looking around at how much mobility even paladins and DKs are getting these days, plus their ability to casually escape roots and snares and even take CC on the chin without flinching, it feels like DH is barely keeping pace.
Adding root removal back to VR like others have mentioned would be nice, but I’d go a step further and say Meta should break snares and roots on activation the same way Druid shape shifting does.
Also, controversial Hot Take: Spectral Sight should cancel all stealth in LoS. Rogues and ferals have plenty of ways to play around stealth denial and there are so many classes and potions that provide stealth now we’re due a class that hard counters it.
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