I look at things like Pact of the Eredar and Deliberate Malice and think they could shift damage away from Rapture itself and spread it onto other things. Having a spender that hits everything you’ve got dots on plays well and is thematically accurate, but it doing so much damage on its own seems to be what rubs people the wrong way.
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Twitch for discussion
YT for sort of our version of “feedback” in longer form vids (25-30m). We have one on aff and Demo so far I believe.
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UA spender would also undermine all those nice changes for aoe and cleave. You’ll end up tab UA-ing into darkglare on trash, just like we had to do in BfA.
I think we all remember how well that worked out.
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There is a lot of hate for Rapture but what if we adjusted what rapture kinda did.
Rapture as is currently does more damage the more dots on target/s.
What if instead rapture didn’t do instant damage but instead acted like a mini rapid contagion. Gives a either enemies with dots or yourself a buff that causes dots to tick x% more often (not changing the duration) for x seconds.
Honestly just throwing out ideas.
Sadly I believe the fantasy for affliction should be rot/drain style.
But we don’t live in a game anymore where rot style accelerates, burst is meta but burst just doesn’t fit the spec fantasy.
Well yeah, that’s the tricky part; how to make a DoT spec fit the fantasy without making it completely overpowered or completely underpowered.
That’s what I kept trying to say just make ticks happen faster. As boring as those are to people it works. If you get to spread all DoTs in 2 globals, but your DoTs are ticking 2-3 times per second per DoT then your 1k damage DoT ticks hit now for 2-3k per second per DoT.
DoTs just don’t have enough ticks and enough damage, themselves, to be fine in mythic+/burst centric style game. Either tune down the amount of burst every spec does, still keeping it bursty but just tuning it down a bit more to be in line with DoT specs and tuning the DoTs up a bit in both tick speeds and tick damage.
Also applying the “After X targets deals Z less damage” and then “After Y targets, deals Z less damage” again where X would be maybe 4 or something and Y is the cap of 8, like a lot of other specs. Substitute 20 or 30% in place of Z, and it’s fine. DoTs won’t scale out of control, can be good 1-4 targets and then be nerfed there, then beyond 8 hard nerfed there, too.
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I think something blizz may have forgotten is that in earlier versions of aff that were more focused on your filler, dot durations were much longer. If they’re wanting the play style of malefic wrath, decimating bolt, and shadows embrace to be a thing, they need to tune the debuff durations to make the refresh and CD times line up and feel smooth.
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at the very least Corr needs to pandemic longer and SL IF it lives, needs to really pandemic longer cuz i think right now it doesnt go past 18 seconds
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Malefic Grasp felt amazing to play. Malefic Rapture feels bad to play.
MG felt unique, MR feels generic.
I am not really sure what made MG so good, but I have missed it ever so much and don’t really enjoy playing affliction nearly as much as I did in Legion.
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You guys are going to complain about issues that aren’t attributable to MR, get MR removed, and exacerbate the issues with a weaker version of UA that is capped at 5/mob (which leads to shard capping in single target).
The rapture dooming has to stop. You have no idea what you’re asking for. We’ve been there and it sucked so bad it had to be changed again and again until we got here.
Add and ACTUALLY TUNE Focused Malignancy to the new tree, remove Malefic Wrath, and you’re 85% of the way to a solid single target profile for aff, with great aoe with the new Vile Taint and SoW x 2 to ramp dots.
Bringing back UA is not the way.
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Commenting just to agree and add another name to the pool of people that hate malefic rapture!
Please delete! It’s not fun.
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I assure you that many of us fully understand what we’re asking for. And many like myself don’t necessarily want MR removed - just for it not to be the foundation of the spec. The devs could absolutely keep adding stuff to make MR work, but the spec ultimately still wouldn’t feel like affliction.
Also really wouldn’t recommend posting so aggressively as a DH in the warlock forums…the meta grudge is still alive and well for many haha
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Agreed. Honestly, I’ve liked it more since they added the 2p functionality. Doing some damage and adding extra dot duration is nice, just not doing ALL THE DAMAGE.
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Ya if they’re dead set on keeping it I guess they could, just give us a viable alternative.
Even then, I worry it would just be a shortcut.
MR is fine in single target, but it’s so bad at aoe because you have to reset Agony, Unstable Affliction, and cast other abilities. I propose increase seed of corruption damage as an option (SoC or MR at start), and not to lose effect with Deliberate Malice and Malefic Wrath.
The main problem of affliction, is the SoC launch time, 2.5s is too long, making MR more effective. The solution isn’t to delete MR, it’s just make a viable option in AoE.
MR itself not being a DoT is very much attributable to MR, and to blizzard for not keeping to its original functionality, which originally it was a DoT buffer, then they decided against it for some bad reason.
People either want it gone or want the DoTs, each DoT not totaled, to be higher than MR damage because, again, Aff is a DoT spec, that means it should be a rot spec and nothing more nothing less.
The moment we make DoT specs not rot specs you lose the thematic of the spec entirely, it’s the same with Spriest, with Feral, with I think Balance, with Assassination. They were all or mostly all DoT specs and slowly blizzard shelled them out to something else entirely.
Ask Spriests what they want. Ask Ferals what they want. Everyone who played DoT specs for the DoT aspect loved and enjoyed the rot style of DoT specs, regardless of whether or not the game evolved into something that doesn’t fit well with DoT specs, this is the niche people loved and enjoyed about the specs. They were very simple to play, easy to do, and quite boring but fun at the same time.
Affliction had MG to make it more fun and interesting and MG had a very good graphic at the time during MoP and Legion. It felt amazing to play in single target. Also, no, Withering Bolt is not even close to the same thing as MG. They have a similar function in that they’re ST buffers, but they do entirely different profiles.
WB buffed your filler based on the number of DoTs on the target. MG made your filler buff your DoTs on the target. The two are not the same, it would be comparing heads to tails or left to right. They are the same in that they are directions or part of the same coin, but they are complete opposites otherwise. MG fit Affliction, it fit DoT spec, it fit rot style and it felt amazing. WB just feels bad because your filler is a filler, it’s not supposed to do omega big damage. It’s there when you have nothing else, supposed to have little damage compared to everything else. Having DS MG was fantastic in that it buffed every other DoT. Your DoTs are the actual stars of the show. With MR, they actually are the side characters because blizzard loves to keep trying to make MR the star of the show. It’s bad, most people don’t want it to be the star. They want it to be the side character or gone from the show entirely.
UA stacking was proposed because people couldn’t think of another shard spender, but they have a perfect shard spender that fits the theme for Affliction to a T, that spender being a PvP talent which should be incorporated into the spec itself or become a spec talent. This is known as Rapid Contagion, the dev who designed this talent for PvP knew what they were doing for the spec. They should have been the dev to design the entire spec for Shadowlands so we could have had RC as the shard spender over MR.
No, people need to stop trying to get DoT specs into burst or into something else. They’re not meant to be anything other than rot styles. Do you know why? The answer is very simple: the entire profile is “damage over time” and burst is not “over time” nor is MR a DoT. It is a nuke that does direct damage based on DoTs. We have SoC for that very purpose, don’t need another, and SoC at least looks like a DoT when you throw it on targets. MR quite literally is bad in nearly every aspect when you consider the theme of the spec; Damage over Time. It’s better off in Demo, in Destro as a nuke not tied to DoTs being up.
It didn’t suck, the thing people keep referring to is Legion Affliction, which was actually quite godly when you played it during Legion. It was broken, though, I admit, but it felt like you were actually rotting things down. I don’t want UA stacking nonsense, I actually want UA to be a regular DoT like we had in Warlords of Draenor and before then. In previous expansions your 3 DoTs were; Agony, Corruption and Unstable Affliction. I want Affliction to have those 3 DoTs, it doesn’t need anymore, really, though the VT rework was pretty cool and that’d be fine to stay. Phantom Singularity doesn’t need to stay, it can go, too, as could Siphon Life, Death Bolt, Darkglare. They can all go. The dev who came up with in talent tree I think they just decided to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks. They’ve missed the mark with half of that entire talent tree, and then the other half it’s nice.
Rapid Contagion should be part of that talent tree, too.
Everyone knows what they’re asking for, as I’ve been asking for these bad design decisions to stop ever since BFA when they tried to make Affliction a bad 3 minute burst spec, which was absurdity at its finest. That was the most garbage design and the dev who decided Aff should be that should get a slap on the hand with a ruler and told “Bad.” Shadowlands was slightly better, but not much better than BFA Affliction.
I agree with you on this, as we don’t need filler buffers. We need fillers to buff our regular DoTs, not the other way around.
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If the spec goes back to pure dots it will be even worse than it is in M+, the content that the vast majority of people play compared to the useless raids.
Even at 15+ the burst aoe makes most dot classes utterly obsolete, and at 20+ it doesn’t change much either.
DoT’s in aoe are an outdated mechanic, and affliction needs access to burst outside dots.
No ,it won’t. The only reason people keep thinking this is because people keep assuming you cannot have DoTs being unable to do good damage, which you can.
They can also tune burst for all specs down because, again, there isn’t a need for people to begin doing diablo 3 style levels of burst in this game. You don’t need to kill a pack of mobs in 10 seconds or less.
No, they’re not. With Rapid Contagion and other things making DoTs end up ticking 2-3 times per second per DoT and easier ways to make you able to get them all up faster, they can absolutely do good burst for those who think they cannot.
If you don’t think so, go play Torghast and get over 100% Haste passively, without incorporating DS:M or anything, and then add in DS:M and other things, get some more Mastery and then watch as the mobs melt. I am telling you that with enough tick speeds and a decent sized mastery for decent damage, you can very easily have burst with DoTs, especially if you have 3 DoTs ticking 2-4 times per second per DoT.
I did BfA keys when corruption was a thing and getting absurd haste levels was easy to do. The spec still revolved around cooldowns and did very little damage if you didn’t have your darkglare to extend your UAs after tab targeting them all over the place. Sure, there’s ways to fix that, but there’s also ways to fix MR too.
Current Aff works far better in actual content than BfA’s version, and all these suggestions to remove MR are basically requests to make the spec worse. I’m sure everyone would feel better when the spec is never invited to do anything because it doesn’t even function properly.
Side note. Seed of Corruption is a direct damage nuke, and even was in Legion where it dominated M+. Why does it get a pass on being ok?
Yeah, when the spec was hot garbage because it was designed around a 3 minute burst and designed to do nothing outside of that 3 minute death bolt burst.
I agree with you 100%, 3 minute burst Aff was hot garbage, the worst design iteration yet.
They do not, as the spec would have Rapid Contagion in its place. I do not understand why people seem to think Rapid Contagion or something akin to it would or could not be better off for the spec than MR. It’s quite literally better in 100% of ways than MR is, and it actually makes sense 100% for the spec vs a direct damage spell.
You understand the spec is hot garbage now and even now it’s still very easily invited, correct? It will be invited for everything but the top of the top level of keys and even then if it’s your key you’re still invited.
At least it’s a DoT, if nothing else. It functions in the same exact way Doom does for Demo, it does 0 damage until the duration is up and then it deals it’s damage entirely and spreads Corruption. I also think it’s more accepted because people only think of it in terms of spreading Corruption anyways, not really people watching or bothering with StS, though that’s pretty blasphemous to the DoT profile, too, but again at least it functions as a DoT, too.
Replacing MR with RC they could tune DoTs to do much higher damage, the profile would be a rot profile like how it was in Legion, in WoD, in MoP when the spec was quite fun to play. They could also reintroduce Malefic Grasp as your ST tuner, and get rid of this nonsensical Withering Bolt style omega damage filler that’s so absurdly bad.
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