i feel like this is a bit of mental gymnastics with reagrds to what it was? Drain Soul made your dots do more damage as it was channeled. that was MG in legion. your dots did more damage. calling it shadowbolt being broken into bits and then named after our dots is like me saying malefic rapture is just teh damage our UAs would’ve done and put into bigger instant hits.
3 Likes
I really despised MR in 9.0, when it was our big nuke and the entire damage profile was dark souls and soul rot MR spam.
I actually quite enjoy MR with 2 piece tier set. Using it periodically to help refresh dots is a fun gameplay style, and I’m glad it will return in DF.
I do not like that MR is the opening talent, I feel like it should be one of the choices, and that UA should have been the opener. But I hate current UA’s design now, and that a PvP talent is required to allow you more than one UA up, feelsbadman.
2 Likes
So just looking at the legion implementation then, they didn’t make MG a talent and then nerf dots by say half the percentage that MG buffed it, which is what they would have had to have done to be “tuned around the ability to have them amped by yet another X%”.
MG is very vivid thematically and does an extremely good job of hiding what was happening mathematically. Having that strong link between dot strength and filler strength makes people imagine that before implementing its damage amp, all of that damage had been in the dots themselves, when in reality that damage was pulled from shadowbolt. Having an MG effect does pose a balancing challenge in that its harder to surgically tune specific abilities without impacting the entire kit, but that’s not the only tool in the box IMO.
2 Likes
MR is probably the best dump iteration we’ve ever had, including UA stacking. I don’t think you know what you’re asking for because the only difference between UA contagion and MR is how long it takes to apply the damage. UA Contagion was also kinda annoying to maintain for multi target. I definitely prefer MR and making UA a VERY STRONG single target dot.
And the alternative to MR that Blizzard is pushing is Deathbolt. 
Which is the absolute worst iteration Affliction has had. And as we all know, Blizzard is stubborn and prefers to just over tune things rather than polish designs. So if MR is too annoying for them to flesh out fully they’ll just over tune death bolt and force us back into BFA’s awful gameplay. You think MR is bad? That’s nothing compared to how obnoxious DB is. Literally made us single target turrets.
I think your criticism is actually that you want MR to be a dump that supports DOT damage instead of dots supporting MR burst windows. Which I totally understand and agree with.
Based on the talents we are seeing right now it does seem like they’re trying to make MR a more support dump and having Seed for AOE and Haunt to boost single target damage. Not opposed to that at all as long as things are tuned so DOTs are the primary damage focus.
“Tuning” will happen all the way to the last minute before launch and can absolutely wildly swing in any direction. Night Fae used to be one of the worst choices for Affliction until a few weeks before Shadowlands launch when it suddenly became the best by a country mile.
What’s important is to clearly state priorities like “Agony/Corruption/UA should be our primary damage dealers and other spells should support their damage” and “Damage should not be focused around small windows of spazzy bursts”.
Honestly I also think MR gets a lot more hate than it deserves because it’s spell effect looks awful and Blizzard refuses to update it for some reason. Seriously just make it send out a Drain Life spell effect to affected targets for like a second and it’d be fine.
2 Likes
I understand what I am asking for, and it is none of what you’re describing. The options aren’t limited to MR vs. some previous iteration of affliction and nothing else. The problems with the spec require attention from someone who gives a crap and isn’t lazy - that’s no longer blizz’s priority. They want to make balance as streamlined as possible to minimize how much the have to pay people.
A proper affliction spec is probably a pipe dream, sadly, as it seems we’ll once again be waiting 2 years for any real changes to be made.
10 Likes
How about an example of what a proper affliction spec even is.
1 Like
At this point its clear MR is here to stay. I think the best bet to make it at least tolerable is to make it a channel based on your soul shard amount, and make a new cool animation for it.
2 Likes
2 Likes
I’d prefer MR vs Rapid Contagion, as a choice node, to be honest. I think that would be direct damage vs DoT damage, which would thematically make more sense as a node anyways since you could get 9.0 Aff vs 7.2 Aff, then.
No, it wasn’t.
Not unless your combat damage (those little numbers that appear every time your DoTs or spells do any kind of damage) was actually messed with and done over, which would be pretty bad.
I think I agree with this, it wasn’t that.
I think Corruption should have been the opening talent, or Drain Soul, actually, even. Get rid of Shadow Bolt entirely, make Nightfall procs allow you to channel Drain Soul while moving for 5 seconds. Also, I liked the WoD version of UA where it was a regular casted DoT that did more damage than all of your other DoTs because it wasn’t instant, nor had ramp. It was just a 1.5 second casted DoT that lasted like 12 seconds or something and did 180% of your SP or some number of damage over those 12 seconds. You could have 1 per target ,but it was there to be another regular DoT to keep up.
Yeahhh, BFA was by far the worst iteration of the spec, I agree.
If I am understanding this phrasing, MR to be a dump that supports DoT damage means something akin to MG, correct?
Yes!! Thank you, but yes this right here should be it. DoT damage as the main and biggest source, above all else.
No, it gets hate because it does direct damage. Like, a lot of people want a rot styled Affliction spec, which is what we had in Legion, in WoD, in MoP. They were centered around rot style, BFA was centered around 3 minute burst window which was absurdity in its finest. SLands was centered around 1 minute burst dump.
Legion was burst, but it was mini burst into big burst into mini burst into mini burst into big burst into mini burst. We call that sustained damage because when your burst lasts 90-99% of the entire 5-10 minute fights in raids, that’s basically no longer burst then, but sustained damage profile as the only time you didn’t have it up was the first 30 seconds of the fight, otherwise you had the weapon thing up the entire rest of the fight so you had constant buffs and bursts happening for 90-99% of it.
That’s why it was classified as “sustained” damage over “burst” damage, because technically while you did burst but your burst lasted so long it never ran out til the boss was dead.
MR gets hate, though, because it’s not MG. People loved Malefic Grasp because not just the cool effect but the fact it made your DoTs forced ticks and/or amped them up more while it was channeled. It was based off of Drain Soul, which is thematically much cooler and animation wise yeah much cooler, too. You’re actually draining their soul, what’s more rot themed than that? Drain Soul also had it’s execute mechanic of 100% increased damage to targets below 20% HP, which made your DoTs tick much harder, too, during execute phases.
People loved Legion because your DoTs, themselves, could execute. You guys remember Death’s Embrace or whatever the execute was that started at 35% enemy HP and as the enemy HP went lower, your DoTs did upwards towards +50% more damage as they got to 1% HP? Yeah, that was insanely cool, and loved. There hasn’t been that kind of effect since Legion, which they should honestly bring it back. They could even redo Creeping Death and put it as that talent right there.
Another thing wrong with MR was, again, it was a nuke and not really a rot. It’s like having a nuke but instead of being able to throw it out instantly, like many other classes can with their burst, you instead have to press 6 buttons and THEN you can begin throwing your nuke out. If you’re gonna give Aff a nuke like that that is direct damage, though it shouldn’t even be there at all anyways, it should actually not have those bells and whistles attached or that just gets annoying.
That’s why MR should be a choice node in the bottom and pitted against Rapid Contagion, so you can choose direct damage tied into DoTs or just make your DoTs do damage much faster.
Legion minus the Artifact ability minus UA stacking plus Rapid Contagion along with execute DoTs, Malefic Grasp, can even keep MR in there and redesign MR to force DoTs to tick each time it goes off, I mean all DoTs not just Corruption. Soul Swap having no CD but costing 1 shard per use. Mastery to affect Drain Soul damage since it actually is a DoT. The mastery should be reworked into: “Increase the damage of your Affliction Damage over Time spells.” This would include everything, from the DoTs up to Drain Soul, Drain Life, everything that is channeled or that does damage over time that is not trinket based.
5 Likes
You have to be insane to think that this is anywhere near balanced.
1 Like
I prefer longer dots for my aff lock than cleave…
4 Likes
I feel like MR could be a lot better if it had a dot cap on it, would mean you could more reliably hit its max value instead of always pooling around 1-2min windows with darkglare/soulrot/PS
If 4 dots was the max it could get buffed by, you could hit that always in ST and with CDs in aoe. If there is worry about the AoE dmg supressing seed, you could always in Focused Malignacy as an option to only make it truly strong on UA targets(plenty of weak nodes you can ax or make 2 pointers into 1 for it in DF)
3 Likes
Speak for yourself. I love the feeling of applying my DoTs to the enemy and then making them flare up for big damage. It makes complete sense to me for a DoT class to cash in on those DoTs. What would be a more satisfying way to spend your soulshards than making your enemy writhe in agony from the afflictions you’ve cast on them? Fantasy win, gameplay win in my book.
5 Likes
I am speaking for myself. Malefic rapture sucks
10 Likes
just here to chime in. Down with the Rapture !!!
9 Likes
anyone here have access to the alpha forums can go and reiterate how much we hate malefic rapture?
2 Likes
I don’t think they would do that. I’m certain most people with Alpha are the people who actually enjoy MR playstyle, but who knows, I could be wrong here.
The difference between Malefic Grasp and Withering bolt is purely thematic. They both cause you to do extra single target damage when you cast your filler spell. The difference is on a damage meter, MG attributes that damage to your dots and WB attributes it to the filler.
I don’t want anyone to get it twisted, to this day I still love MoP malefic grasp. The graphic was amazing, drain twisting with DS felt smart, and gearing up over the course of the expansion let you MG more and DS above execute range less making you feel more powerful. Slapping the effect on DS was boring, no interactive play aside from making it feel better to be using your filler while UA was up.
2 Likes
Blizzard definitely needs to invite more warlock mains to the alpha, there are only 20 posts on the feedback thread.
2 Likes
No, the difference is in what deals damage. So, Withering Bolt makes Drain Soul deal more damage per DoT. Malefic Grasp kept Drain Soul dealing the same damage, but it made the rest of your DoTs tick and/or deal more damage, aka Corruption, Agony, Siphon Life, Unstable Affliction, Phantom Singularity/Vile Taint. Those would all deal more damage under Malefic Grasp or do more damage via more ticks.
No, stop attributing everything to how the meters look. You see those numbers flying across your screen, via the combat text/log/modifier addons? Those are all affected by it. Yes, the damage meters, too, but your raw damage is affected by it in how it is.
Yes, which again its not a meters thing, it’s an everything thing. It’s a combat analysis thing, because again those numbers flying across your screen every time your DoT deals ticking damage, those are literally affected or were by MG. Those got bigger or more of those occured while MG was selected and DS was up. That is not a “meters” thing, that’s a combat analysis / damage profile thing. MG provides more raw DoT damage in the form of multiple DoTs being affected. WB it’s the same but instead of all DoTs being affected, it’s your filler only, which means just 1 DoT over the entire DoT toolkit. That’s the issue people have.
2 Likes