DETAILED CONCEPT Ranged Survival / Ranger / Wilderness / Forester

Malwares-grobbulus · October 25, 2019, 1:55am

EDIT: No melee vs ranged arguments. This has NOTHING to do with retail Survival.

TL;DR: This is my ideal concept of a re-introduced ranged Survival hunter. The name may no longer fit the fantasy, which is why I listed a couple alternatives. Unlike MM, where the focus is on your Bow, this spec is focused on the Arrow itself.

The idea is to make use of damage-over-time effects, while using a variety of cooldowns and talents, to do specialize in priority-target burst damage, multi-target cleave damage, or high single-target sustain. While this type of hunter isn’t quite as proficient in AoE, they excel in single-target and cleave, and you may even find that some mechanics are useful in PvP scenarios. Because this type of hunter is focused on using heavily specialized arrows, he isn’t too concerned about a pet.

I also intend for this spec to be full of synergy. Many of the baseline abilities and passives, but also talents and cooldowns, enhance this spec’s toolkit to be incredibly flavorful and fun (in my opinion). Even the Mastery directly impacts game play, as it affects one of the most notable hunter passives in the game.

Of course, the possibilities aren’t limited to my suggestions below. Tweaks can be made and options added or removed. Regardless, they’re intended to strongly influence what this type of hunter is and I hope that you take a moment to understand my take on this specialization and enjoy.

Numbers used are placeholders, but intend to reflect the mechanics as accurately as possible.

SPEC SUMMARY: “A ranged hunter with an affinity to nature. Often found roaming wild terrain, this survivalist is a skillful ranged combatant and master of all surroundings. Shoot arrows affixed with various elements and tools to inflict damage or utilize defensive techniques to escape from danger.”

Spec Details

Resource: Focus – passive regeneration at 5 Focus per second.
Weapon: Bow, Gun, Crossbow
Agility / Attack Power / Weapon (?) for damage scaling.
Default - No pet; pet optional (?) (at loss of Hunter damage)

Mastery

Arrow Master
Your spell damage is increased by 5.0% and your chance to trigger Lock and Load is increased by 2.0%.

Passives

Quick on Your Feet
Run speed is increased by 20%.
One with Nature
Heal for 1% of all Nature damage dealt to an enemy.
Natural Reflexes
Chance to dodge abilities and resist spells increased by 10%.
Ranged Prowess
Grants you 5% increased critical strike chance for each of your damage-over-time effects on the target, and critical strikes made by Explosive Shot have a percent chance equal to your current Ranged Prowess effect to apply Elemental Exposure to the target.
:
Elemental Exposure increases spell damage taken from your abilities by 20% for 5 sec.
Lock and Load
Damage caused by your Black Arrow has a 5% chance to grant you a charge of Explosive Shot, and damage caused by your ranged auto attacks has a 5% chance to make your next Arcane Shot cost no Focus.

Cooldowns

Aspect of the Wild
Instant — 2 min cooldown
Grants you 5 Focus per second and 10% increased critical strike chance and haste for 20 sec.

Utility

Disengage
Instant — 20 sec cooldown
Leap backwards in attempt to escape from danger.
Nature’s Remedy
15 Focus
Instant — 2 min cooldown
Drink an all-natural tonic to heal for 25% of your maximum health over 2 sec.

Abilities

Cobra Shot
2 sec cast
Shoot two cobra fangs that impale your primary target and a nearby enemy, dealing 100 Physical damage to each target and extending the duration of your Serpent Sting by 2 sec. Generates 10 Focus.
:
Deals 50% more damage if you only strike one target.
:
Usable while moving.
Serpent Sting
15 Focus
Instant
Shoot a venom-tipped arrow into your target, dealing 100 Physical damage and causing 300 Nature damage every 2 sec for 16 sec.
Black Arrow
30 Focus
Instant — 30 sec cooldown
Shoot a dark arrow into your target, dealing 200 Physical damage and causing 200 Shadow damage every 2 sec for 18 sec. Deals damage twice as often to enemies below 20% health.
:
If an enemy affected by your Black Arrow dies, the cooldown is reset.
Explosive Shot
15 Focus
Instant — 10 sec cooldown
Shoot an explosive arrow into your target, dealing 100 Physical damage and initiating a timer. After a short delay, the arrow detonates dealing 400 Fire damage every 0.5 sec for 2 sec.
:
2 charges
Arcane Shot
30 Focus
Instant
Shoot an arcane-infused arrow into your target, dealing 100 Physical damage and 400 Arcane damage.
:
Hitting a target affected by your Black Arrow reduces the cooldown of Black Arrow by 1 sec.
Chimera Shot
Instant — 12 sec cooldown
Shoot a two-headed arrow into your primary target and a nearby enemy, dealing 400 Nature damage to one and 400 Frost damage to the other.
:
Deals 25% more damage if you only strike one target.
:
Generates 10 Focus per target hit.
Immolation Trap
30 Focus
Instant — 1 min cooldown
Set an explosive trap at the desired location. When triggered, the trap explodes and sets all nearby enemies ablaze, causing 100 Fire damage every 1 sec for 10 sec.
Ice Trap
Instant — 30 sec cooldown
Set a freezing trap at the desired location. When triggered, the target is frozen in a block of ice for 1 min or until damaged.

Talents (VERSION ONE): Grouped damage type w/ PvP talents.

(Tier 1) Nature’s Bite

Snake Bite – Cobra Shot and Serpent Sting deal 20% increased damage, and Cobra Shot generates 5 additional Focus.
Chimera and Serpent – Chimera Shot immediately triggers the effect of your active Serpent Sting on the target and extends the duration by 2 sec.
Lasting Sting – Serpent Sting is now permanent and Cobra Shot cripples enemies affected by Serpent Sting, slowing them by 30% and reduces healing received by 20% for 5 sec.

(Tier 2) Fire and Flames

Critical Burn – Explosive Shot has double the chance to land a critical strike.
Wildfire – Explosive Shot deals additional Fire damage to all nearby enemies.
Disruptive Explosion – Explosive Shot disrupts enemy spellcasting when it detonates.

(Tier 3) Effective Remedy

Herbal Tonic – Nature’s Remedy heals for 100% more health over an additional 2 sec.
Potent Tonic – Nature’s Remedy increases your maximum health and decreases damage taken by 20% for 10 sec.
Spiced Tonic – Nature’s Remedy removes all negative effects and causes you to deter all incoming attacks for 3 sec.

(Tier 4) Enhanced Arrows

Arcanic Arrow – Your arrows are enchanted with the arcane. Ranged auto attacks have a chance to shoot an Arcane Shot into your primary target.
Ricocheting Arrow – Your arrows are hardened and more dynamic. Ranged auto attacks ricochet off your primary target and hit a nearby enemy.
Storm-Infused Arrow – Your arrows are infused with the storm. Ranged auto attacks have a chance to spark a chained lightning effect, dealing Lightning damage to up to 5 nearby enemies.

(Tier 5) Questionable Engagement

Quick Retreat – Grants you 80% increased movement speed for 5 sec after landing your Disengage.
Narrow Escape – Reset the cooldown of Disengage when you take damage greater than 30% of your health. Can only occur once every 30 sec.
Light on Your Feet – Reduce the cooldown of Disengage by 8 sec.

(Tier 6) Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera

Double Strike – Chimera Shot shoots both arrows into your primary target.
Sudden Strike – Reduces the cooldown of Chimera Shot by 3 sec each time it deals a critical strike.
Nature and Frost – Chimera Shot deals Nature or Frost damage to all nearby enemies when it strikes a target.

(Tier 7) Master of Arrows

Greater Focus – Increases you Focus and Focus-generating effects by 20%.
Focused Arrows – Reduces the cooldown of Aspect of the Wild by 1 sec for every 20 Focus you spend.
Elemental Prowess – Increases the duration of Explosive Shot by 1 sec, and increases your chance to apply Elemental Exposure to the target by an additional 10%.

Talents (VERSION TWO): Grouped ability type w/o PvP talents.

(Tier 1) Single Target

Snake Bite – Cobra Shot deals 50% increased damage and generates 5 additional Focus.
Double Strike – Chimera Shot shoots both arrows into your primary target.
Lingering Shots – Increases the duration of Explosive Shot by 1 sec and Black Arrow by 2 sec.

(Tier 2) Cleave

Sudden Strike – Reduces the cooldown of Chimera Shot by 3 sec each time it deals a critical strike.
Aggressive Sting – Serpent Sting deals 20% increased damage and hits an additional nearby enemy.
Chimera and Serpent – Chimera Shot immediately triggers the effect of your active Serpent Sting on the target and extends the duration by 2 sec.

(Tier 3) Effective Remedy

Herbal Tonic – Nature’s Remedy heals for 100% more health over an additional 2 sec.
Potent Tonic – Nature’s Remedy increases your maximum health and decreases damage taken by 20% for 10 sec.
Spiced Tonic – Nature’s Remedy removes all negative effects and causes you to deter all incoming attacks for 3 sec.

(Tier 4) Enhanced Arrows

Arcanic Arrow – Your arrows are enchanted with the arcane. Ranged auto attacks have a chance to shoot an Arcane Shot into your primary target.
Ricocheting Arrow – Your arrows are hardened and more dynamic. Ranged auto attacks ricochet off your primary target and hit a nearby enemy.
Storm-Infused Arrow – Your arrows are infused with the storm. Ranged auto attacks have a chance to spark a chained lightning effect, dealing Lightning damage to up to 5 nearby enemies.

(Tier 5) Questionable Engagement

Quick Retreat – Grants you 80% increased movement speed for 5 sec after landing your Disengage.
Narrow Escape – Reset the cooldown of Disengage when you take damage greater than 30% of your health. Can only occur once every 30 sec.
Light on Your Feet – Reduce the cooldown of Disengage by 8 sec.

(Tier 6) AoE

Wildfire – Explosive Shot deals additional Fire damage to all nearby enemies.
Explosive Trap – Immolation Trap deals double damage and lasts for an additional 5 seconds.
Serpent Spread – When Chimera Shot strikes a target affected by Serpent Sting, a cloud of venom bursts from the target and spreads Serpent Sting to all nearby enemies.

(Tier 7) Master of Arrows

Greater Focus – Increases you Focus and Focus-generating effects by 20%.
Focused Arrows – Reduces the cooldown of Aspect of the Wild by 1 sec for every 20 Focus you spend.
Elemental Prowess – Grants your Ranged Prowess effect an additional 1% increased critical strike chance and increases your chance to apply Elemental Exposure to the target by an additional 10%.

Sound off below and please tell me what you think!

Velyzra-tichondrius · October 25, 2019, 1:49pm

Are you suggesting they replace current SV for this? Or want this as a fourth spec?

Bepples-barthilas · October 25, 2019, 2:23pm

Any ranged Survival concept should be a replacement of current Survival. Melee for Hunters has proven to be an unviable concept and it has been nothing but bad news for the class since they forced it on us in 2015. It does not merit its own spec at all; not as a fourth spec (the very idea of a fourth spec for a pure DPS cless is ridiculous) and especially not as one of our only 3 specs, thus barring a former ranged spec from even existing.

I realise others on this forum like to play the diplomatic card on this issue but this is the reality. There are only so many specs in this game and such a niche concept is just not feasible and only serves as a drain on development time and resources at the expense of proper specs.

The only acceptable form of melee for Hunters in modern WoW is as an optional subspec for Beast Mastery. This is because there is no melee Hunter identity that doesn’t necessarily rely on a pet and it’s the only form of the concept that has any sort of lore precedence.

Velyzra-tichondrius · October 25, 2019, 2:25pm

Then I don’t want it and I disagree with your statement.

I think the pie of pie melee survival has carved out for itself is fulfilling and I do not want it replace. This comes from someone who main survival In pvp back when people were calling it a pure pve spec.

The issue with you pro-range survival people is that you keep going about the cause in the wrong way. Taking away peoples options will never gain traction to get what you want. Frost Dk and their 2handers is a prime example of this.

Bepples-barthilas · October 25, 2019, 2:32pm

And you are wrong in your disagreement, plain and simple. There are no more hypotheticals and unknowns this far in. There is no influx or wave of interest coming to the spec. Everything has been tried at this point, including sacrificing most of the spec’s dedicated melee mechanics. It’s a failed concept, period.

This attitude is not surprising coming from someone who plays a melee class as Blizzard has through their melee-infatuated class design approach since Legion has conditioned a strong sense of entitlement among melee players. Once they signalled to melee players that they will literally steal entire specs from ranged players and give them to melee players, those melee players will demand anything and everything. I even see melee players asking for melee options in classes such as Priest and Mage at this point. Not even as 4th specs, but as replacements of existing specs (usually Discipline and Fire in this example), so why should I support a 4th spec option in Hunters for them? They NEVER reciprocate and they have zero respect for the classes they try to butcher so why should I give them respect that they never give back?

As was already demonstrated to you in the other thread, tone policing does not work. I’m perfectly comfortable with upsetting those who play the current spec because there are hardly any of them to begin with and as far as I see it the vast majority of them are people with minimal investment in the class anyway, including you.

Velyzra-tichondrius · October 25, 2019, 2:39pm

I’m not. I still and will continue to disagree with any notion of removing the current survival for the return of the underplayed and under-appreciated range survival. Periodt.

I don’t need to be entitled to state I like a spec and that is enough for me not to want it removed. The entitlement comes from randoms and nobodies who think they have any impact on what happens with a class and spec dispite blizzard putting their foot down and not caving into the trolls.

As I already told you in another thread, the only one policing around here is you. You are policing the topic as well as any threads that have to do with it.

As already mentioned until you ( and others like you) act right you can continue to go without getting back ranged survival. Shoot at this point I hope they don’t even add it as a fourth spec just to make you even more mad.

Nitrolatte-emerald-dream · October 25, 2019, 3:02pm

I like melee survival.

Velyzra-tichondrius · October 25, 2019, 3:06pm

Ikr.

Me too.

Keep enjoying it friend. It’s not going anywhere.

Nitrolatte-emerald-dream · October 25, 2019, 3:08pm

My dude! It’s a blast in wpvp. The people I run mythics with don’t complain about it. Keep survival melee and just make a 4 spec that’s ranged.

Bepples-barthilas · October 25, 2019, 3:17pm

You are wrong, end of story. If you argue that melee SV has not been an unmitigated failure you are demonstrably wrong. Every single one of their stated goals has failed. Their goal was to solve the invented problems of:

Survival being too similar to another Hunter spec
Survival having no clear identity
Survival being changed up every expansion

Let me reiterate that these are all wrong and made up. I can show how, if you want, but that’s not the goal of this post. The point is that they have failed at all of these in making it melee. It is now heavily depending on another Hunter spec’s core identity and even iconic elements of its toolkit to a far worse degree than ranged Survival ever did. It’s identity has NEVER been worse, not even in Legion (the worst iteration of Survival bar none) as you have 3 differing, largely-incompatible identities competing for prominence in a base toolkit of just 6 abilities. It’s also gone through 2 major iterations in just as many expansions whereas ranged SV had the same core setup for 4 whole expansions. Let’s also add to this how it’s been the village idiot off class design since its inception; the one everyone points to for comic relief. It can’t sustain a significant playerbase, and it hasn’t even seen a world first EVER (the last time a Survival Hunter was in on a world first kill it was still ranged).

Failing to get any of the intended results out of a spec revamp = failure. Cannot deny it.

What is this jab at ranged SV’s population? Do you just not have a clue at all or are you deliberately lying/revising history? Ranged Survival was consistently a very popular spec. It has even been the most popular spec in the game at points. The only time it was significantly unpopular was in its very last tier, Hellfire Citadel, when they had already decided to can the spec and had thus ensured that it couldn’t perform at a viable level in raids at all. Meanwhile melee SV has never even broken out of the bottom 5 in raid representation and is usually last place or second last (it is currently second last in Eternal Palace, losing only to the infamous dumpster fire Subtlety).

You are, however, as a player of a melee class (and not a Hunter main), entitled.

Blizzard has already caved to pressure on melee SV going into this expansion. There’s nothing ruling out further concessions.

Don’t change what was said. I said tone policing. You come into every thread and talk down to people and try to boss them around on how they should discuss melee Survival, creating a false condition where if they act too mean about Survival (and, in your eyes, anything short of total acceptance of melee Survival and abandoning all ranged Survival ideas is too far) they won’t get it. That is tone policing. It’s an extremely dishonest tactic that is often used in political discussions, but applies just as well in game development discussions too. Your goal isn’t even to moderate the discussion; your goal is to silence criticism of melee Survival. You might not admit to that, but that’s what it is.

Maybe they don’t complain because you’ve only done 6 mythic+ runs this entire season and you went BM for your latest one? Just saying.

Ghorak-laughing-skull · October 25, 2019, 3:26pm

Am I a joke to you?

I’ve been since the start stating that MSV should not go anywhere…

Exactly.

The same goes for what they did to us with ranged SV.

Really…

Malwares-grobbulus · October 25, 2019, 3:29pm

Why is there even an argument on my thread about melee vs ranged Survival? Nowhere in my post did I ever suggest, even remotely, that this concept should replace the current iteration on retail. In fact, I said “if it were to be brought back” and “the name may no longer fit the fantasy” as in, let’s call this spec something else.

Can we stop with the petty disagreements? Honestly. Forget about melee Survival, because this isn’t what my post is about, and instead have fun with the concept I’ve introduced.

Ghorak-laughing-skull · October 25, 2019, 3:32pm

Agree with you Mal.

Sadly, this is always what happens as soon as someone even mentions the one or the other. Which has been one of my main points since I first came to this forum.

As long as people keep it in their heads that “It-has-to-be-one-or-the-other. Not both!”.

This argument will never end/will always come up. With every thread.

It’s sad really.

Velyzra-tichondrius · October 25, 2019, 3:46pm

Nope you are. Thats on periodt.

When i talk about the spec, i talk from a pvp perspective. i am not a another grass on the ground, pve is simply a means to a end. ranged Survival, as far as i have known and played it, was called the pve spec back in the day.

nope. i actually mained Shadow priest up to a certain point. I understand the blight of ranged. if anything you playing a hunter makes You entitled because of how different range hunter is to other range specs. Strawman.

Who said I don’t main hunter?

As i said, its not going anywhere. Until factual evidence is provided that that is no longer the case. The point stands. Now even cemented.

Uhhh I came in here and asked a question.

As everyone can obliviously see, you’re still bitter about the other thread and have chosen to stalk me around on the forums. Typical.

I don’t know what world you live in, but on earth i don’t know of any human with enough self-respect to allow someone to take something that they like and to do so rudely. Yes, that is questionable and I WILL continue to state such.

Its painfully obvious of how bitter you are. You really need to do better. To the point that me asking a plain and simple question to the Op triggers you this much you shouldn’t even be on the forums.

Example G of bitterness:

Nope.
Your cool asf. there are exception to errthang sweetie. I commend you for how you go about the topic and insist that Beeples follows your example if he hopes to ever have range survival see the light of day again.

I agree.

As far as i know, and saw, i personally never saw any threads or knew of the topic to replace range survival with the melee one. That was a dev choice. people think they know everything but the fact of the matter is is that the dev have what we know AND more. For whatever reason they did what they did. That does not mean that pro-range survival hunters need to go about the topic in such a rude way. Once again you (and im sure others, just not Beeple) are a exception. This same type of thing is going on with unholy vs frost dk on the topic of weapons.

As the saying goes: “A few bad apples can ruin the bunch”

I simply asked a question.

Velyzra-tichondrius · October 25, 2019, 3:53pm

I completely agree.

It back in legion was a huge basket of tools! they’ve pruned some but its still so smooth and silky.

So happy we got it and its here to stay!

Ignore Bitter Bill, hes mad we are having fun and he has to sit facing the wall.

Yura-area-52 · October 26, 2019, 1:57am

cool spec dude. this is what i imagined MM would look like in legion when they said they were combining it with SV.

Ghorak-laughing-skull · October 26, 2019, 1:27pm

There are several things that I like about the design. Some questions though:

Bow (primarily)?

Meaning?

I can see that most things here are themed around the use of bows and arrows. At first I thought that this had less meaning to you. But as someone who likes to use both guns and crossbows, I would not want an entire spec that I play to be themed around a single weapon type.

Quick on Your Feet

Do you intend for the current Hunter talent Trailblazer to be removed in favor of a passive such as this? Because I doubt that they will make both of these stack with eachother.

Ranged Prowess

I like the general concept for a passive. Though I’m not sure if you mean that the basis to crit is only dependent on the amount of active DoTs that you have on a target. OR if your base crit chance counts towards this as well?

Focused Arrows

I like the reference to the old Readiness-talent.

I’m a bit sceptic though regarding the actual output potential coming from this. Considering that it’s the major CD.

Due to the fact that this spec is in general a spec involving DoTs. And since the increase to damage on those 3 attacks, would run out before most of your DoTs have even finished ticking, I just feel that this would need something more.

Even with the Master of Arrows, Tier 5 talent picked.

Quick Shots

Stopping your passive Focus regen and at the same time starting to consume 5 focus/sec passively while also spending focus on active abilities. You will run out of focus in just a few globals.

Am I to assume that the “Enhanced Arrows” talents all have very high chances to proc? And that the procs/extra hits account for a lot of damage?

Also, having this as an on-use, combined with the Master of Arrows, Tier 5-talent Greater Focus. These two partially counters one another.
Or would the talent not affect your passive regen at all? Just manual regen?

Nature’s Remedy

On live we have Exhilaration as a on-use self heal. Is this(Nature’s Remedy) meant to be an addition to Exhilaration or is it meant to replace it?

Cobra Shot

I like the baseline cleave.

Black Arrow

A built-in execute. I like it.

Explosive Shot

I would prefer for it to have more of it’s original design.
I would also prefer for it to have the AoE-component to be optional.

It’s a reference to the MM-version I can see(sort of). Though I would personally, keep MMs version as it is while designing Explosive Shot for the new spec as it was originally. It’s baseline functions that is.

Arcane Shot

I assume that by “reduce’s its cooldown by 1 sec.” you mean reduces the CD of Black Arrow by 1 sec, right?

Or do you intend for Arcane Shot to have a cooldown, that can be reduced if it hits a target that is affected by Black Arrow? Probably not, but gotta ask

Chimaera Shot

Do you intend for Chimaera Shot to be a baseline ability here while also letting it stay as an optional talent for Beast Mastery?

Immolation Trap

Baseline, apart from your Explosive Shot design as well, this trap is the only form of AoE-capability that you have. Meaning this will(have to) deal A LOT of damage to affected enemies. Which is okay in itself.

Though, having your AoE tied to a location based ability with a mid-range CD, has the risk of becoming incredibly infuriating at times.

However, if you were to combine this with something like the old Serpent Spread passive effect/talent that we had back in the days, this would completely change its usefulness as a situational ability.

Ice Trap

The old Ice Trap-ability that we had, was the predecessor to the Tar Trap we have today. We also already have Freezing Trap in the game as a hard CC.

Am I right to assume that you’re just talking about Freezing Trap here?

Some things here I like.

My main question though is regarding the general approach to talent design. Looking at it, to me, it feels like a combination between individual talents we saw back in the older days and with a layout similar to what we saw during MoP.

Nature’s Bite
A bit odd of a combination of talents on this row if you ask me.

Fire and Flames
Here you have one talent that focuses on increasing crit for a single main ability while another talent focuses on CC.

You also have Wildfire which is essentially the same as the baseline mechanic that Explosive Shot already has. Just that it’s location-based, rather than being target-based.

Enhanced Arrows

A tier where you’ve combined 1 AoE-talent with one Cleave-talent as well as one ST-talent.

It’s ofc one way to go about the design but not personally a fan. I want talents focusing on AoE to be on separate tiers compared to other types of talents.

Master of Arrows

Neat ideas on their own, though I would argue that both “More Arrows” as well as “Lingering Shots” needs something more to warrant being talent options.
As they are now, I would say that they come closer to being designed as something similar to minor Azerite- /Artifact-traits.

In general, there are nice design elements here, though the overall design requires massive changes to be made to all classes and to the design philosophies of the talent-system as a whole. Otherwise you cannot implement a design such as this.

Watermist-skywall · October 26, 2019, 3:05pm

Like the others have said, this is a fun concept. Nicely done!

I have to admit one thing, though: it’s a little funny to see Chimera — excuse me, Chimaera — on this.

It was a MM core shot from WotLK to WoD, when all of a sudden, Blizzard decided that it “belonged” to BM because “spec fantasy.” (And even added that silly second ‘a.’)

I miss Chimera a lot, guys. I miss it a lot, especially the WotLK version where it had different effect depending on the sting used (the target had Scorpid Sting on it? Oops, he’s now disarmed! Viper Sting? Mana drained! Serpent Sting? Health drained and given to the Hunter).

Buuuuuut I’d also admit, I do agree that Chimaera (I’ll never get used to that spelling) does work nicely for SV. (I swear, the only reason Blizzard gave it to BM is because of the name. )

Ghorak has a great question, though: is your proposed version of Chimaera gonna be an exclusive move to your suggested spec, or is it gonna be shared with BM too?

(If you say the latter, then I want Chimera back for MM too. )

Malwares-grobbulus · October 26, 2019, 5:04pm

Because the spec is thematically focused around arrows, bows most ideally fit this spec fantasy. But regardless, it doesn’t matter what you use—the spec still works.

I designed this spec not considering current talents. I wanted it to be unique in this way, without losing the “hunter feel.” Not to mention, nothing here is necessarily set-in-stone. It’s a concept, of course, so feel free to pick and choose what you think best fits.

The crit chance granted from the primary passive, based on all current active DoTs on your primary target target, is additive to your character sheet crit chance.

The secondary passive bonus, Exposed Vulnerability, has a percent chance to be granted, based ONLY on the Ranged Prowess effect, on any critical strike you make with Explosive Shot.

Example:

You have 3 DoTs on the target, so your current Ranged Prowess crit bonus is 15% (5% per DoT). Your baseline character sheet crit chance is, let’s say, 18%. This totals your crit chance to 33%.

You have a 33% chance to crit with Explosive Shot. Once you land a crit with Explosive Shot, that crit has a 15% chance to grant Exposed Vulnerability.

Honestly, I’m not quite sure where you’re coming from. If you’re referring to the 10 second window I mention, the intention is that you have to fire off all 3 shots during that time frame for those shots to receive the bonus.

The reason I added that limitation is because, let’s say the CD bonus lasted indefinitely (until you fired them off), then you could easily regen back up to full Focus prior to beginning your rotation. Otherwise, the CD may as well not use any Focus at all and it’s just another mindless button-press.

Example 1: On pull

Use Focused Arrows > 10 second window begins > fire all 3 shots back-to-back > shots are buffed for their remaining duration.

Example 2: Prior to pull

Use Focused Arrows > 10 second window begins > you wait in attempt to regen as much Focus as possible > you fire your first shot, 10 second window ends, you fire the last two shots > your first shot benefits from the buff for its remaining duration but you lose out on your second and third shot.

Actual numbers pending, the intent for this ability is to be both thematic and fight-situational: high focus; infrequent shots OR low focus; frequent shots. It may be okay never to use this during a fight, because sometimes you just don’t touch certain abilities. However, you may also be fighting a boss that requires periodic burst / waves of adds where triggering this on and off again may prove useful.

This talent row can be presented in a multitude of ways, none of which I have determined final:

Example 1: high proc chance, lowered damage while Quick Shots is active.
Example 2: low proc chance, raised damage while Quick Shots is active.
Example 2: “average” proc chance, “average” damage while Quick Shots is active.

How I envision it: consistent damage regardless of Quick Shots up-time, because Quick Shots does have high Focus consumption.

Quick Shots only affects passive regen, which means no more 2 Focus per sec. Manual regen through Cobra Shot and Chimaera Shot remains consistent and benefits from Greater Focus, even while Quick Shots is active.

See Quick on Your Feet response.

Neat idea, huh?

^^

Couple things on this.

Aside from the AoE component, the only thing separating it from it’s original design is the (technically 1 second) delay in the Fire damage. This is purely thematic. It just makes sense, to me, for there to be a timer on an explosive.

To add, I see an explosive as something that does massive damage. For it to deal damage to a single target baseline is a bit odd to me.

That being said, I designed this spec to excel in single target and two target cleave damage. I feel that it’s necessary to have some AoE component regardless, which is why it’s built in to Explosive Shot baseline, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be incredible.

Perhaps, with that in mind, the AoE component could actually be split damage, in which case you have:

400 damage to primary target, 400 damage split between all additional targets

… this way, the spec remains true to excelling in single target and cleave, and lacks in, but is still capable of, AoE.

Wording has been changed to accurately reflect my intention. The former assumption is correct: Arcane Shot reduces the cooldown of Black Arrow is it hits a target currently affected by Black Arrow.

This is something I contemplated because, on one hand, I don’t want button bloat, but on the other hand, I like the idea of having another ability that excels in both single target AND cleave, that also functions as a way to generate Focus.

My intention is for this ability to be baseline, as it once was, but perhaps it could be fit into a talent row (depending on spec tuning and what not).

Truth be told, I didn’t even think to add this ability until the end of my design because I want the focus of this spec to be on its use of arrows. As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t intend for this spec to excel in AoE. maybe it’s cooldown should be reduced to compensate for damage, or maybe its damage could be bumped up a bit to compensate for the lengthy cooldown, but my feelings on what this spec should excel at remains the same.

Definitely.

Regarding talents, here’s my thought process:

When I look at talent rows right now, I see 1, maybe 2 talents on a row that work and 1 talent that is out of sight, out of mind. History has shown that 1 talent typically sits well above the others. This is why I implemented a single target/cleave/AoE/CC variation in each row, so that you feel obligated/excited to make use of every talent depending on the situation.

If you care to elaborate, I can explain for ya!

I’m not proud of Wildfire. In fact, I had “Lingering Flame,” affecting only Explosive Shot, here originally.

Explained at the start of this section.

Understandable. Perhaps I can alter these in a way that make them more desirable, while keeping similar concepts.

Ghorak-laughing-skull · October 26, 2019, 8:11pm

As for the theme, yes, Bows fit the most.

My argument was about the fact that the design is themed around a single type of weapon despite that the spec as a whole is capable(and intended) to make use of several types of ranged weapons.

Mechanically, it would not matter.

But if you have a spec that promotes using multiple weapon types, then the effects and abilities that make up for the various elements of said spec,
must(should preferably) be designed with that variation in mind.

Mechanically, it would not matter no. But thematically, and in terms of flavor, it would. To a lot of people.

Fair enough. I’ll get back to this later on^^

Okay.

While the specific percentage number doesn’t matter all that much at this stage, keep in mind that you originally said it was 4% per DoT.

Anyway, by your example:

In theory, this would over time equal roughly 1-1.5 procs(crits) per Explosive Shot fired. It involves RNG though so, it can be more and it can be less.
This rate in itself, is all good if you ask me. It doesn’t need to be higher. Though ofc, the more crit you have, the more it will average out to be.

However, then apply the 1/7 (again, based on the number of active DoTs) chance for those crits to actually apply the Exposed Vulnerability to the current target.
With 1-1.5 theoretical crits per ES fired this equals 1 Exposed Vulnerability-proc per every 4-7 casts of Explosive Shot. Again, it involves RNG so, can be more and it can be less.

Considering what Exposed Vulnerability does in itself when it procs, I would argue that it should have a 100% chance to proc every time your Explosive Shot critically hits a target.
Otherwise what you would end up with, is that the target takes 5% increased damage for 3 seconds roughly once every 30 seconds or so. Give or take.

The vulnerability mechanic in itself isn’t bad. For SV as an example it can be a reference to the original WoW-design of Black Arrow that we had back in WotLK where it did not only deal damage but also caused the affected target to take increased damage for it’s duration.

I got that part.

My concern was more that this type of mechanical design would not amount to a whole lot of extra damage. Considering that it’s a 2min CD.

An alternative design could be:

Once activated, your target(s) take X% increased damage for every DoT that is active on them, for the duration of the CD.
Considering the name of the ability: Focused Arrows

Just a thought though^^

Not entirely sure what that means as the ability only affects Auto Shots. The Enhanced Arrows-talents also only affects Auto Shots.

The thematic design itself isn’t wrong/bad. It’s basically the same as the Exotic Munitions-talent we had back in WoD. Just with more RNG and different flare/flavor. An upside is that it(compared to Exotic Munitions in WoD) would allow for more player-oriented choices of activation as well as burst-potential.

I got that part as well. My question was if Greater Focus affected passive focus regen and not just active generation.

And on that note. Your Focus-model of 2.0 Focus/sec seems a bit low.
On live, MM currently has the lowest passive regen rate of the 3 specs.
It’s at 3.0 Focus/sec baseline(increased by haste) if I recall correctly.

They both would follow the active builder/spender concept ofc. Though with such a low baseline Focus regen, it will most likely feel extremely slow at times during combat. There’s more to it than just the passive Focus regen ofc, though it’s part of the reason for why I currently do not like playing MM.

For a spec that’s based on dealing damage through DoTs, especially if you want it to be somewhat decent in multi-target scenarios, it would be better if you have a higher baseline passive regen while at the same time having active Focus generators(such as Cobra Shot) providing a bit less.

For a spec like the current MM where you spend more time hardcasting as well as channeling(Rapid Fire) to gain a large amount of Focus back, it’s better to have a slightly lower passive regen while having active generators(such as Steady Shot) providing a bit more Focus-per-cast.

Fair enough, it’s your vision^^

Though, ignoring current design entirely might not be very favorable considering what you want from your suggestions.

Considering you haven’t embraced the past design of SV where we had Multi-Shot combined with Serpent Spread(for applying SS onto multiple targets at the same time).
Yes, this helps with DoT-management on several targets. Although the duration increase to SS that you have suggested, might need to be increased slightly.

Depends on what you’re after ofc.
With the above design, even if you were to spam Cobra Shots, you would only be able to extend the SS debuff on a target by 50% of the baseline 15 seconds. Less so if you use other abilities in between.

Considering the official statements we got where the devs said that they don’t want multiple classes/specs to have active executes(like for Warriors), something like what you suggested is a fair compromise.

Plus, it very much fits a spec that is themed around the use of venoms and poisons.

True. Though I based it mostly on the topic of practicality and usefulness.

Having AoE built-in to your baseline ST-rotation can at times be very infuriating.

At least, this was the feedback I got on my own suggestions for ranged SV a while back. In PvE it wouldn’t matter as much for the most part. Though in PvP, it would.

No no. I wasn’t talking about making Chimera/Chimaera Shot
(Hint @Watermist ) a talent for your spec.

On live atm, Chimaera Shot is a talent for Beast Mastery.

My question was if you intended to keep it as a talent for BM while also giving it to your suggested spec as a baseline ability?

I honestly think that the ability itself would fit a ranged SV-type of spec very well.
Especially with the design where it is a Focus-generator.

You could easily go deeper into that design and make Chimaera Shot even more useful if you’re fighting multiple targets.

Explanation:

If Chimaera Shot critically hits a target, it’s cooldown is reduced by 50%(of the default cooldown that is).
If Chimaera Shot critically hits 2 targets(as it’s a dual-headed shot), the remaining CD is instantly reset.

The above doesn’t have to be a baseline built-in function to the ability. But it can be a optional bonus coming from a different source.

Since the Focus model is heavily tied to the active builder/spender concept, having this type of benefit for when you’re fighting multiple targets makes it even more useful.

Fair nough. Though the spec of old did have several elements tied to the enhancement of Traps.

I think additional Traps fits very well with the theme.

My concern was more that this would’ve been your main/only baseline source of AoE-damage. (Not counting Explosive Shot due to reasons mentioned above.)

Fair enough. Though it would still require massive changes to not just the Hunter class but to all classes to make any sense in the game.

You could implement it, but it would heavily gimp the spec compared to other specs/classes depending what encounter you might find yourself in.

Note that I’m no advocator for a strive to “perfect” balance. I’d take flavor and thematics any day over simply picking the top performing choices. However, with a design such as this, depending on the fight, there would often really be only one choice you could pick(would want to).

Mythic raiding as an example, is not tuned around you having to pick the most numerically optimal talents only.
But if some talents were essentially dead talents for certain fights then it WOULD force you to sometimes pick talents that you might not like.

If you do, I will check them out as well

*DETAILED CONCEPT* Ranged Survival / Ranger / Wilderness / Forester

DETAILED CONCEPT Ranged Survival / Ranger / Wilderness / Forester