The assumption is that you’re able to form a group, and that people would stay for hours. I think people would see 200io players forming groups for 15s and skip it. After all, why join some 200io player’s level 15 group when you could make a group for the same exact dungeon+level without them?
Timer is the stupidest part of M+
Just make the score based on completion. Raiders don’t suffer if they need 8 attempts to down content.
If the score is simply based on pass or fail it would be a far less toxic community and the only people who will jump in and argue for the timer are people with good regular groups who always time runs.
Or just have two versions of M+ one without a timer that counts towards your score and achievements for mount and vault gear and another version with a timer that let’s you earn additional score points to compete with other hard core people for the seasonal titles for the 0.01% rewards and for portals.
That pretty much sounds like the viable option. Build a team to avoid pugs if Blizz won’t or doesn’t try to address it yet.
Completion is a given. It’d be hard to score you based on that.
If people had to time each level of key on the way up, they wouldn’t be complaining about leavers lol.
There’s already feedback on CC forums, maybe you should address this on the feedback forums instead of GD, since usually threads here don’t receive response. Also, you should provide your ideas since your OP didn’t have ideas besides some kind of penalty, so the community can check and list scenarios, maybe this kind of penalty…etc there’s a lot of ideas and counter arguments. Also if you link a Council post , they can see it and maybe check your input.
If anyone abandons the run before a timer has expired, then the risk should be on them to not achieve an IO score for a debuff should be placed on them for (lets do 1 hour)
The dungeons should be scaled in a way to not only have APM as a score factor but to also have each boss be a portion of the score with a completion under time to be factored in the total score at the end.
That way if you abandon a run you get no score, you get a debuff that prevents you from gaining a score for (lets say an hour) and the remaining members get a vote to cancel the run with no harm to their score and no score debuff given.
There should be a vote to abandon after X amount of deaths and have that tied to boss completion. So if you have 10 death and no boss killed yet. You get an option as the key holder to hold a vote to abandon the run with no penalty to any members.
These are just ideas I have and in no way are permanent or not able to be altered.
Naahmah thanks. I figured someone started a forum on it already.
in my experience, the people at the upper end of the range are neither the toxic ragers nor the people who leave after one missed kick
So if I were the leader of the group and I wanted to bypass all that…I could just kick someone? They’d get the debuff and we’d be free to leave.
They’ve talked about this in the past and it’s hard to punish people because there’s so many reasons any individual person might leave.
Is DPS super low? Are people dying to easily avoidable mechanics etc. The list goes on.
If someone thinks they’ll waste their time and potentially not finish and spend over an hour in there, they don’t have to stay.
Well then come up with an idea to prevent that from happening. I see the problem you addressed, but I don’t see the solution. I at least came up with ideas to work with.
There isn’t a solution because it isn’t a real problem. If you’re being quit on so often that this is a serious issue…I’m sorry to say that the problem is you.
These threads get made once in a while and no one has ever come up with something that wouldn’t be abused to a ridiculous degree.
So an arrogant player A keeps doing mechanics badly and you call them out on it in a polite manner and they take offense to it because they are on the spectrum and rage quit on you at the second last boss isn’t somethin that could ever happen?
Why are you chatting during a run? If people keep quitting on you so often that this has become a serious issue for you, and it sounds like it has, stop talking during your runs. All you need to say is hello, ready, and good game. That’s it.
There’s no way to punish leavers that isn’t also digital slavery.
What if I get into a group and it becomes obvious the group cannot time the key? Well, my time commitment is now growing beyond what I agreed to. If I agree to a 30 minute key, and it becomes clear that key is now going to take 1+ hours AND now my only reward is off the table, should I be forced to stay and carry these people?
No. Of course not.
Look, there’s and unspoken social contract when you pug content that you can actually fail. Everyone tried their best, and if that’s not good enough, we call it. There’s no reason to keep pounding something that isn’t going to happen.
Now, I get it, at this stage of the season, most people who don’t do m+ can probably eventually work their way through a key for the vault. That’s great. Make groups for that. But don’t try and trap people who actually do m+ In these groups because you can’t be bothered to set expectations.
It’s premade for a reason.
What exactly are you going on about? You are acting so immature like this stuff couldn’t possibly happen to anyone or be a factor in anything because it doesn’t happen to you.
It happened and when the tank is continually failing at doing mechanics in a 13…then something needs to be said if it is causing wipes on the other members because of their failing.
your lack of communication leads me to believe you run with a core group of friends in VOIP or the familiarity helps you succeed but gives you a narrow mind on the struggles of pugging it.
I’ve pugged high keys, low keys, and everything in between. Of course people quit sometimes, but if you’re setting up your groups correctly and not being an idiot in the chat, it won’t be a regular occurrence.
No, he’s right. For most people who m+, that’s all the chatting that required. We’ve all run every one of these dungeons 100+ times. There’s no discussion needed. There’s maybe a couple of options here or there, like “do we skip the casters before the bridge or do them?” kinda thing. One or two in one or two dungeons. Other than that, everyone knows what’s up.
If the tank is failing mechanics and causes a wipe, there’s breakpoints for that. 20 minutes before Amarth? Dead key. Hakkar at 11 minutes? Dead key. Etc etc.
But neither of you or Pisaro have considered the other case. That you are not failing on time at all and the run is going quite smoothly regardless of deaths. but you’re at the breaking point where if this were to continue it WILL have an affect on the group and the timer.
So you say “Hey tank, could you try not to point the cleaves on the melee suddenly? It’s been killing us because you’re abruptly moving it into us.”
Then the tank throws a fit and quits the group because they can’t see they’ve been killing the group on a storming week turning cleaving mobs suddenly on the melee to avoid a tornado. Leaving the group as a whole out in the water when all they had to do was finish the run and take into consideration the next time they play to change their approach on tanking this week.
I’m not the bad guy here and at least I can see your side of the story. I have yet to see either of you take into consideration the alternatives.