I understand the reasoning behind VTK and deserter debuff, even for D/C. However, there are those of us that, if we get D/Cd, we try to get back in ASAP and finish the dungeon yet so many seem to subscribe to “D/C=instant kick” or even just extra lag meaning a kick.
What makes it most annoying though is there are times we can be low lag out in the world, even in the cities, but the moment we enter a group, lag city and there is no way of telling if it will happen each time.
As such, I’d rather have it so that the group can vote on not just the kick, but if the one kicked actually deserves the debuff. There are times I agree that the one getting kicked should be kicked, because they are not right for the group, but I don’t want the debuff forced on them as, while they might not be right for the group, they did nothing wrong. In exchange, I’d even be willing to extend the debuff to 1 hour.
All in all, I just want something that does not feel punishing for things beyond my control, yet still keep systems, like VTK and not letting people abuse such without some kind of detriment, in place.
Let me put it this way, if the debuff is also voted on, and confirmed, that likely means the one kicked likely did something to tick the party off. I would prefer it to be kept to the 1/2 hour, but if there has to be a trade off, the obvious one is increase the time of the debuff.
This, OP puts way too much faith in to the goodness of humanity.
If Humans weren’t so keen on instantly kicking a DC’d player, we wouldn’t need to discuss a secondary “did someone deserve a debuff” vote prompt. I can already see it being abused, maliciously.
While I have seen some weird kicks, what constitutes “ticking off”? Has anyone actually been kicked for that reason?
As for D/C, completely legit reason to kick. Some will give a grace period before kicking and some will just ignore it because (especially in TW) it’s super easy content. But it’s very reasonable to be kicked for being D/C. No one knows how long it’s going to take you to get back on and most just want to get the instance over with.
Probably not what you want to hear, but it’s reality.
Which is why I don’t question the kick, just the debuff.
The second one would be a good one for a delay on being able to click yes, so the only option for those wanting to get the prompt out of the way would be to click no.
“Tank too slow” is something that I have heard about. And if this is actual griefing and people are abusive, I can see the argument and the need to report it.
However, I’ve been kicked for being too slow. I’ve also been kicked for absolutely no reason, as I can tell.
I’ve been down this rabbit hole before. It never ends well.
You’re going to get a camp of people that believe everything is working as intended, then you’ll get the other camp of people saying it’s abused.
Either way, the system is actually working as intended.
You may not like it, and trust me…there are times I don’t like it, but it’s working as designed.
It’s a crapshoot when you LFG with random people.
Now, also expect the third camp of people saying… problem is easily solved by only queuing with people you know.
I’m certain this is not what everyone wants to hear, but again… it’s reality.
I’m trying to imagine the forums if that kind of change was implemented. It’s on fire now for a 30 minute debuff, it would melt into oblivion with a 1 hour debuff.
And what does “tick off” actually mean? Did they let the tank know they were going the wrong way? Was the Warlock too slow? Is someone doing too much/not enough DPS? Were they a Vulpera? Mog mismatched?
My Dracthyr hunter was removed from a group this morning because, I assume, I was taking too long to turn in dungeon quests at the end of a TW Utgarde Keep run.
Knowledge for the future; try to communicate to the group that you need to turn in quests at the end of the run. xD
Personally, I believe that if anyone has anything done to their toon while D/C’ed…they should be reset outside the instance. Things like this happen, but that’s not what Blizz wants…so we live with it.
holding the group hostage, forcing a kick (the reason being kicked applies the debuff in the first place)
wanting to go fast while the rest wants to go slow, of vice versa
being a jerk to others in the group
and more.
As far as the system “working as intended” argument, I am not saying it does not, just that, thanks to those that abused certain aspects in the past (holding the group hostage, leaving after a certain boss, ect) that those of us that did not do such or don’t do such get punished or face consequences for things that we did NOT ask for.
If not a second vote, could we just have it set up so that if we are kicked due to a D/C, or at all, while the LFG cooldown is still going on, the debuff time is just the same as the remaining CD?
But it is working as intended… as Blizz intended. I highly doubt that the devs took any time to actually get player feedback on the system.
You have an interesting list and at the top you use the phrase…“holding hostage”. How can anyone hold anyone hostage when you are queuing with random people? There are always options, the first and foremost being… you can leave. I’ve had to do this on a few occasions because no one wanted to cooperate and it was extremely messy. Yup, got the debuff. But that gave me time to switch to a different toon and queue again.
You keep saying the debuff time is the problem, but it isn’t. There are actual issues with the system, one of them being the reasons anyone can kick…like being Vulpera. Really, we’re kicking races now?
But the debuff time is fine. Any more, you get an exponentially higher amount of complaints. Any less and you get actual abuse.
At the very least i donʻt know why the person being kicked is not later informed of the reason why,
Why does everyone else in the group get to see “Poor DPS” but not the one player that could benefit from that knowledge?
“Why was I removed from the group?”
Who knows, you are ugly and the universe hates you thats why. deal.
It is hard to do now, but back when the system was first implemented, you would have tank, or other roles, refusing to do the dungeon they got (often Occulus) and, since leaving the group would apply the debuff, they more or less forced the group to go ahead without them or kick them.
These 2 ho hand in hand, or to put it bluntly, the debuff time is NOT fine due to the stupid reasons that one can be kicked. Maybe, if people had to choose from a menu, or there was a system that blocked stupid reasons (bad DPS as a reason on a healer, being a vulpera, etc) there would be no issue with the time, but no matter what changes, there will be those that will complain for not being able to do as they like.
Oh, and just to illustrate situations that prove people don’t think, I was just kicked from a TW instance on my rogue, as I had issues transfering in, D/C and had to teleport in, group was far ahead so I used my sprint, and could have caught up soon, but they kicked me instead and anyoen that joined afterwards would have the sane issues I did. I was not D/Cd, I was not AFK, I was just unable to catch up but not for lack of trying.
”