Yeah, and it sucked because players would just troll until groups kicked them so they could requeue. That’s why the dungeon deserter from kicks exists in the first place. Did you not play original Wrath?
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Which was how it was in Wrath. You couldn’t kick from the start. If you got kicked you didn’t get Deserter. Plus there were no Mythics.
So what happened? People just ripped through Heroics. No drama. No toxic gatekeeping. It was fantastic. The Wrath Classic dungeon experience is a dumpster fire by comparison.
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This is obviously false.
There is already a 15 minute cooldown on queueing. Trolls are usually kicked early on, within the first 5 minutes, and 10 minute CD versus a 30 minute CD isn’t going to be the deciding factor for whether or not a player chooses to troll as you’ve described. In contrast, kicking random non-troll players usually happens mid-dungeon. So we have a situation where the deserter debuff penalizes trolls with an effective 20 minute timer, but penalizes non-trolls with an effective 30 minute timer. And if the kicked person is an DPS, they get to wait an additional 20+ minutes in a new queue. Already a terrible trade-off.
Additionally, if a group encounters a troll, the negative impact on the group is minimal anyway. They kick the troll and put themselves in the queue. DPS replacements are instant. Healers take around a minute, and tanks take two to four minutes, at the most.
So the system punishes innocent players much more than it punishes the trolls, who hardly have an impact on the group anyway.
The OG Wrath devs actually understood game design well, which is exactly why they chose not to setup the system this way. It’s bad design. If you do a cost/benefit analysis, which the Classic team is notoriously awful at, you understand why the design is bad.
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Never saw that happen. Not saying it didn’t but it had to be pretty rare considering everyone has a 15 minute CD before they can queue for another dungeon. Might as well just run the dungeon. But even so, who cares? Kick them what’s the big deal?
No, it isn’t. The entire reason for the deserter debuff on kicks was to prevent people from trolling. This behavior was incredibly prevalent… that’s why Blizzard made the change in the first place.
It was common enough that Blizzard put in the effort to change it. Consider yourself lucky.
- Minimum number of kicks, what if you use them all on people asking to be kicked?
- Some dungeons just don’t get ran
- It leads to a toxic environment
Again, did you not play original Wrath?
You didn’t actually respond to any of my reasoning. I wonder why…
I for one trust Blizzard of 2008/2009 and their decisions over Blizzard of 2023. But to each their own.
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No that was the 15 minute dungeon CD.
Now who’s trolling?
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I wonder if they will “listen to feedback” and fix it.
Bloomer has been proving he either didn’t play original Wrath, or has completely forgotten how it worked for months now.
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No, the debuff was specifically added to kicks to prevent players from coercing others to kick them for fast requeues. Blizzard has said this themselves.
After what Delicimus has shared, I find this ironic.
You obviously didn’t play Wrath. There is a 15 minute CD on queuing for a dungeon. You can’t get a fast requeue, you have to wait 15 minutes anyway. Most people just plowed through the brain dead face roll dungeon.
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And yet despite that, it got changed (as early as Cata atleast, potentially during original Wrath due to a lack of patch notes), so clearly there was an issue that warranted that those who are kicked also get a penalty.
“Players who are removed from a dungeon group through the Vote Kick system, are uninvited by a group leader from a premade group of five, or leave willingly from a premade group of five, however, will not receive the Dungeon Deserter debuff.”
You didn’t get a dungeon deserter for being kicked in all of Wrath. Can’t speak for Cata because I didn’t play it much. Please explain how a deserter debuff would solve any problem that a dungeon queue CD doesn’t.
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Dungeon queue CD only applies to randoms. You can still queue for specific dungeons.
Deserter was most likely added to penalize toxic players that were being kicked to prevent them from queuing more, regardless of whether or not they queued random.
That only proves that at the very beginning, it didn’t give deserter. It could’ve still been added up until Cata, where it then definitely existed.
And you base that on what?
No one is disputing this. What I’m saying is they specifically changed this because that wasn’t enough to discourage players from behaving poorly. You would know this if you had played original Wrath.
Every post you make makes it more obvious you didn’t play Wrath or don’t remember. There was not poor behavior in Wrath. And not in Wrath Classic until Mythics were added, which is the real culprit. And the changes they made to RDF empower toxic gatekeepers to troll other players. In the original form people would just do the dungeons. You literally couldn’t hold a group hostage.
To the other person above I took it upon myself to look into this dungeon deserter debuff being added when you got vote kicked. It wasn’t in Wrath, but I find a few posts from later on where people claim it might have been changed during Cata. But a lot of contradicting posts. Some people saying you only got it if it was before the first boss was done. Stuff like that.
What I’m surprised to see is so much toxicity that was going on during Cata dungeons. Even back in 2011 people were making lots of posts about vote kick abuse. So what I’m starting to understand is people like the troll above are simply confused. They’re combining dungeon experience from Cata with Wrath. Because that was not a thing during Wrath.
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This is ironic considering what Delicimus has shown us.