I ran BRD yesterday and we AOE’d a bunch of groups. The warrior mentioned “just spam demo shout” to hold aggro. I had a gut feeling that wasn’t the case, because I distinctly remember it being very difficult to hold aggro on AOE pulls as a warrior in Vanilla/TBC. You basically had to individually target and sunder to hold any meaningful type of aggro.
I think this is what is (partially) contributing to the mass success of AOE runs right now. If warrior tanks can just spam demo shout, then of course mages and warlocks have it way easier to AOE farm.
They said rank 2 Battle shout is correct because you get 12 threat per target buffed, and you get r2 bs at level 12. From what I’ve tested, buffs give threat equal to the targets that received the buff that are in combat divided between the mobs they are in combat with. Debuffs seem to be 2x but I’ve only tested r1 and 2 hoj. So, battle shout wouldn’t be that good for aoe threat other than the initial aggro, a mage would pull off of you in a heartbeat. In single target, that’s a different story.
Have been against trying this but did it in gnomer last night with rank 2 demo shout. Cant say i ever remember autos + ds holding agro that well. Its boring as hell though. Not efficient at all though.
I recall using demo shout to kite adds for Razorgore, but I certainly don’t recall it being a viable strategy for tanking dungeons. Then again, maybe it was and no one caught on back then. It’s certainly not engaging gameplay.
Demo shout was always great for AOE threat, I am not convinced this is a bug. People just didn’t try to AOE down entire dungeons back then, and when you’re doing normal (less than 5-6) pulls demo+tab sunder is more efficient than straight demo spam.
edit: and for everyone saying there is some multiplicative threat bug, can you please link or post where this was actually tested and how you came to this conclusion?
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What I recall from warrior tanking in Vanilla and TBC was that spamming shouts was not a viable strategy for holding threat for AOE.
There’s not a clear distinction about this, but I believe the shouts and buffs should only generate threat when a buff or debuff was actually applied to the target. Threat generation did not stack if the debuff or buff was already applied (i.e. if demo shout is already on target, threat generation did not accumulate from doing another demo shout). Same applied to battle shout, if all 5 of your party members already had the battle shout buff, then no additional threat would be generated if you used battle shout again.
This is making dungeon AOE farming a lot safer and seemingly a lot more like Retail. Game-breaking if you ask me.
It’s now adding the entire threat generated from the mobs affected to all mobs instead of splitting it amongst them as it should. Its broken; just like many things have been broken which makes this a horrible launch of “classic”. Game breaking along with several other issues like raid xp exploited and layers manipulated
Waiting for fixes and a new server set that doesnt allow transfers to the server to bring ill-gotten spoils to the new server
Why would it split threat? Its literally debuffing each mob the same.
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The thing I figure is, people just didnt understand threat as well in actual Vanilla, and spamming shouts was thought to not be that good.
Remember in actual vanilla alot of meta things today were thought to be bad.
Warriors in leather, daggers for tanks.
Etc.
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Demo shout was one of the easier things to test back in the day, though.
Put yourself into the shoes of a main tank back in Vanilla and TBC raiding -> even though we were first learning, we tested tons of things because we figured “Hey, what abilities do we have that is AOE and generates some kind of threat? Demo shout!”
I remember testing it back in the day and it never holding any type of aggro. Prime example was UBRS whelps. There was no way any tank was holding aggro on all those whelps, no matter what they did with the exception of challenging shout.
Sure, people were inexperienced in terms of testing out very specific loot, but demo shout was super easy to test out. This is simple enough strategy where if it worked back then, it’d work now. But it didn’t work back then. AOE dungeon farming wasn’t a popular or easy thing to do in Vanilla as it is in Classic now.
Edit addition: threat was figured out when raiding started -> threat meters needed to be accurate to raid and run dungeons accurately
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It’s 100% a bug. Battleshout reacts this way, that was the basis of phase 1 strats on nef back in vanilla. Demo shout never behaved like this.
It is actually pretty game breaking for dungeons.
I guess if you want to level 30-40 real quick as a warrior just head to SM and abuse this until blizzard patches it.
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That is fair I dont have any proof it worked otherwise.
So its obviously something the fake servers must have gotten wrong if that is the case since i remember seeing it was functioning in reports from those.
#nochanges
This is a bug from 1.12, and therefore should not be changed.
Just looked up the old patch notes.
Patch 2.0.1
Fixed an issue where Warrior "Battle Shout" was causing too much threat.
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I spammed demo shout in vanilla for big AOE pulls (such as whelps)
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That is a different ability. Battle Shout is not the same ability as Demo Shout. Demo Shout did not hold aggro in Vanilla like it does in Classic. I tanked through all of Vanilla and it definitely did not work. This is the very reason the Battle Shout bug was used - Demo Shout didn’t hold aggro. If Demo Shout DID hold aggro in Vanilla, tanks would have been spamming that instead of Battle Shout.
They work in two very different ways. Battle Shout held aggro due to buff threat on your party. Demo Shout is currently holding aggro via debuff threat on your targets. This is definitely a bug and did not work like this in Classic.
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From a rather iconic threat analysis back in the day:
e) Demo Shout ftl. Demoralising shout does one sixth the threat of a sunder. Even spammed in defensive stance with defiance, you’re doing no more threat than 42dps on each mob. Besides picking up whelps in Onyxia and tanking panthers in the Panther boss encounter in ZG, i can’t see a compelling reason to use this.
And another from a reddit post :
Demoralizing shout = situational. When Demoralizing Shout is working correctly (read: not splitting threat between targets), it does 1/6 of the threat of one Sunder Armor per mob. Even with Defensive stance + Defiance, it does not generate enough threat by itself for you to out-pace healing aggro when tanking multiple mobs. In general, individually Sundering mobs (via tabbing) + Battle Shout + Cleave/Whirlwind will be of more use to you than spamming Demoralizing Shout.
The amount of people misremembering and mixing up battle shout and demo shout is staggering. BATTLE SHOUT was used to cheese nef and twin emps. Demo was never good for consistent aoe threat.
If Blizzard comes back and says this is working as intended I’ve lost complete faith. I can almost guarantee demo shout instead of dividing threat per mob is full threat for each mob or even giving a bonus for each mob, which is not how it functioned at all.
Yup, I remember battle shout tanking. Used for adds in quite a few fights as buffs dont suffer from DR. Demo shout does or did however and was used 1x at the start and every 30 sec for dmg mitigation only, not to hold threat.
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Originally posted by Blizzard (View Original)CollapseHi All,We have identified a fix for an issue that was causing Demoralizing Shout and Demoralizing Roar to generate too much threat when applied to multiple enemies. In addition, we’ve also identified a fix for a separate issue that was causing Battle Shout and most healing spells, effects, and buffs to incorrectly split the threat they generate between enemies that had members of the buffed party on their threat list.Hotfixes for these issues are going to be deployed very soon, at which time all of these effects will match their functionality in the 1.12.
well fuk
Im a little confused at the battle shout changes.
