Well they went from too mobile to making us more turret than Destro. So incredibly frustrating, especially with how many things you have to avoid in M+ now.
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Borne of Blood was a conduit in Shadowlands that made it so Hand of Guildan had X % chance to give a demonic core. It was made into a talent in Dragonflight but removed sadly.
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This is a solid lock post with ideas that I genuinely hope that the devs pay attention to. If they really do listen to feedback then they have to realize that their last rework to the spec had some good ideas but they screwed it up with some normal Blizzard nonsense. Damage buffs will not help the spec when the crippling factors still exist.
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Thanks! I tried maintaining what I assumed theyāre going for currently, but added in the fantasy that Demo locks should really have and be. I think these talent tree changes could solidify Demo lock for the foreseeable future and be further expanded upon! Bringing back Grimoire of Supremacy solely for Demo would bring back some old flavor favorites and expanding the depth of HoG could make for satisfying casting. I also think loosening the restrictions to casting in general would help the pain points, while still maintaining what I believe they want for the class.
I also really hope this catches the attention of Devs, that, even if they donāt take all of these potential improvements, do take some and run with it!
While I think Demoās rework this xpac is a step in the right direction, I agree there is definitely room for improvement.
Iām not sure how Umbral Blaze made the cut, especially with Soul Harvesterās Soul Athema fulfilling the same role, but better, or why it was necessary to gatekeep Pact of the Imp Mother like that.
The Doom talents are in such a weird state. Doom and 2 of its supporting nodes want to be used in AoE, but the Doomguard capstone is designed for single target. Makes perfect sense.
Iām surprised Immutable Hatred and Guillotine survived the rework. With the nerf to core proc generation IH feels weak and undeserving of its spot as a capstone. Guillotineās extra AoE feels excessive in a spec that already has tons of AoE, like Doom on the other side of the tree, and its 45 second cooldown will always be out of sync with the rest of our tempo - something the devs pointed out as a sore spot they were fixing when they gave us this rework, but decided not to touch Guillotine.
TBH im kinda bored of G:FG. As our big 2 minute cd it feels weak as its just another demon wailing on the boss in melee. There is a plethora of demons in the WoW universe and our big spell is just another Felguard?
IMO I would love to see a partial rework of Demo where:
- G:FG is removed
- IH/Guillotine is moved up to where G:FG currently sits, tweak Guillotine to better mesh with our rotation
- The right side of the bottom of the tree is reworked to support a new 2 minute cd with a focus on single target damage / imps. Like an Inquisitor that spawns extra imps while its active.
- Return our Doomguards back to throwing our Doom bolt volleys, the rest of the Doom talents are geared for AoE, so should Doomguards.
- Swap Carnivorous Stalkers with Dreadlash, this would give us flexibility to pick between Imp Gang Boss and Spiteful Reconstitution and not give up access to Soul Strike
- Idk what I would want to replace Umbral Blaze, but UB has got to go
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This should be an option (or,at least, have BSB auto-target), not a replacement.
As I understand it, CH scales with Haste, whereas GH doesnāt. So, either both of them should scale with Haste, or neither of them.
Have to say, I really donāt like Guillotine at all and just canāt bring myself to use it. Iād rather summon a demonic worm that pulses Hellfire as an AoE capstone.
I also think that Vilefiend really needs a shorter cast time as it just really makes the rotation feel like your running through treacle.
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Same, honestly. Mostly I took immutable hatred over guillotine, since it was the simpler choice. But hey, at least itās not demonwrath
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Iāll do you one better and make our 2 minute grimoire: Pit Lord instead! Could feel way more impactful, while still granting us a 2 minute bigger Tyrant!
I personally think these two should be split and allowed to both be taken! Leading into Grimoire of Supremacy!
Honestly, I like where this is could lead, but would prefer that side of the tree not increase or improve our imps, the left side has that managed and could be further improved. Instead, these could be entirely new demons we donāt use. Or bring back portal on that side.
I think Doom exploding in AoE kind of took this over and is more consistent. I donāt think doom and DGs should necessarily work as both AoE and single target. Having one part AoE and another single maintains focus and allows for other options. Feels like this talent would be standard and weād always be forced on that side no matter what. (Not that itās any different now, but this would exacerbate that issue).
Or make imp gang boss baked into Imp-erator. Again, I think that the left sideās focus on Imps and the right on empowering Felguard/dogs is the philosophy, so splitting Spiteful and Dreadlash would muck that concept up. Not to say they canāt though!
I wish. Either just remove it and give us back HoD or bake it into HoG baseline.
Iād be okay with that! But targeted would just be the better option. Earthquake has the choice node and I think everyone just takes the @target one.
Agreed. I would prefer both scaling with it!
This could be awesome! Tyrant buffing itās damage as well would work in the kit. (I donāt want a worm though lol).
Agreed. Scale VF and dogs cast time with haste more aggressively.
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CS and Dreadlash are already on the right side of the tree, swapping their positions would mean you could take Soul Strike through CS, rather than through Dreadlash. CS is already a core talent, so this pathing would give us more agency by being able to pick IGB or SR freely. As is the tree is right now, you have to pick SR to talent into Soul Strike as we dont grab Dread lash in single target. Swapping CS and Dreadlash would fix this.
I think it would be better to keep Doom and the talents focused on AoE/Cleave and the right wing of talents focused on single target/burst. Having to pick up Doom, a poor talent in single target, to grab Doomguard, a single target capstone, doesnāt mesh well IMO.
Demo already has great AoE, Iād like to focus more on single target when I need it
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Oh I misread that comment, my mistake!
I agree with this argument, I just like Doom Bolts hitting as hard as they do and they would nerf that pretty substantially.
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To be entirely fair, Lock Meta and DH Meta were entirely different playstyles. All Blizz had to do was change the name and graphic of Lock Meta and DH could have their precious Meta without denying Locks.
Ah, but alas, it is what it is
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Yeah, I would imagine that they would replace the concept of meta for Locks, with summoning a demon that amplifies our kit to some extent instead. Which could be really cool actually, now that I think about it lol
The fact that tyrant will continue to not be an instant cast cooldown is such a joke. I feel like the only type of feedback the developers pay attention to is from people like Kalamazi or other content creators that more or less help dictate how a spec will perform or play and itās very frustrating at times.
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Yeah, I feel that way too. This is why I made as clean a post as possible with organized thoughts, hoping that it would gain some traction and create more dialogue. Kalamazi is pretty knowledgeable, but I think settles and works with what Blizz gives us. At the end of the day, itās not our job to design the classes, but we can definitely persuade them in some fashion. Keep this post alive with recommendations and Iād wager that someone who can make changes will take notice!
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I mean, if the logic is that two classes canāt temporarily turn into a more powerful form, technically then DH shouldnāt have meta cause its basically just Shaman Ascendence. I still think warlock meta could easily fill a role within the warlock toolkit, especially at the same time as DH having meta. Just, for warlock make it a āpermaā transform and just call itā¦Demoniacs Focus or something. Make the old shadow form available as a barbershop option, but make something new for the appearance.
Though, if warlock got the form (or something akin to it) I would want it as a tank spec thing.
Leave Demo alone!
If you want to have Meta, give it to Desto, theyāll have a ball as a giant Hellfire demon.
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Or give it to Diabolist and throw Infernal Machine/Cruelty in the trash. No reason we canāt all have nice things.
Yeah I would prefer it to not be in Demoās kit to be honest. I like the current philosophy of Demo, I just want the above tweaks to our talent tree to better increase the fantasy and further improve whatās available. We donāt really empower ourselves in the current iteration, we summon demons to do our damage, while amplifying them, sustaining them and summoning more of them. Having Meta for demo in any form would be the opposite of the idea behind the spec. While I understand the nostalgia people have for the ability, I think there would be a better way to get the same effect, but maintain the specās essence. If it were another Demon that we summoned that granted us Doom Bolt instead of Shadow Bolt or something like that, that might be neat. But Tyrant would have to be instant cast before that lol
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I really like the ideas for the right side capstone area. Having a Fel Lord permanent pet and making IH and Guillotine options where the new talents were put is an interesting idea.
Regardless there needs to be some more work done. I enjoy the direction demonology is going, but thereās more to be done.
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Agreed. Honestly, the current iteration of talents on the bottom right side feel like placeholders. Just strange decisions. +4% crit damage that far down? Those talents should feel way more impactful than a measly 4% increase. Increases your felguardās crit chance by 30% of your own? Why? Who even asked for those that deep, let alone at all lol. They just feel like filler to get to Guillotine and IH and those talents are not impactful enough to even bother with, especially as capstones. I really, really hope these ideas are translated into our tree to some degree.