Honestly ever time I take a break from wow I look at the icyveins TL;DR section … I dont want over complicated specs and classes… I would prefer much much DOTA style heros and classes be in the game than keep having needless complexity other than the sake of having complexity.
Hopefully the Allied race system adds extra classes in such a manner.
My DH is a tanky DH. Hopscotch tanking is all the rage these days with it. Was fun but expensive in Korrak’s tanking all the elites I could.
Black mage is the most complex DPS rotation to maintain past 50 because you have nooo mobility and short time frames to manage your astral fire/umbral ice buffs.
Faceroll DPS over there would be red mage.
3 button very forgiving rotation?
I’ll pass.
And Feral! Prowl, Pounce, two (three for Worgen) run speed CDs, AND loads of self heals (Resto Aff)
my main is samurai. Pretty comfortable because kenki and sen don’t deplete over time and i can’t just miss my entire rotation because i failed timing (or boss goes invulnerable) like on dragoon with his eyes
Just main rotation takes 15 buttons + 10 are situational and mobility +5 for aoe situations. Love sam.
The funny thing is, There are like 8 more solid DH abilities, from mana and health burning rifts, +30% demon blade strike cds, Nemesis, etc, and a whole lot, built right there in the pvp talent trees that seem completely like, scrapped for unknown reason talents.
Sure Some make sense as a balancing hazard. (Look at WOTLK and Three random dks with Army of the dead soloing entire bgs and dungeon bosses), but i do feel like there could be a way to add in 1-2 buttons.
Vengence on the other hand, feels and plays really well, but performs ok (mid of the pack) in M+ where aoe, utility and kiting can shine, but terribly in raids with really crap single target damage and 75% or more of the sigils do nothing significant to a raid boss. (Silence sigil? Nah, Aoe chain sigil? Nah, Fear sigil? Nah, Fire sigil? Ok do 5k damage over 20 seconds. Big whoop.
Than again, if i have any empty spaces i just start filling it with random and situational macros and healing potions and healthstones, drums, Katy Stampwhistles, etc. I do feel like The Vengence Fracture without the soul shard mechanic could be neat. Maybe like a 1-2 charge ability of some kind. And i really think the Demon Blades could at least offer some novelty replacement or say, put demon’s bite on say a 5 second cd, but store 1-2 charges etc. I really think like Felblade/Demon blade combo could maybe use one or two more gcds to fill up the holes in a 8 second rotation over a double glaive throw for pve though. Really don’t get the whole total button used thing though. Don’t like 90% of classes devolve to “Keep your Dots on the targets at all time, unless snapshotting. Press procs that light up, use your good damage cds on rotation, Manage resources and save them for your crucial abilities /burst but never overflow, press procs when they pop up, move onto the boss, stand in fire, and ignore mechanics?”
I swear no matter what people say about rotations i swear like regardless of tank spec or dps spec spending like literally the only person who killed like 11/13 orbs in a tol with two ranged dps while one spawns on the fire and we stare blankly makes me want to go WHy… Just why…
If we’re gonna have explosives orbs with rdps that ignore the orbs, can we at least get a tank “autotarget the bad that kills us” button?? That could be useful. or at least let Orbs be damaged by aoe attacks when focused as main targets as VDHs literally basically only have aoe and no single target while building up spirit bomb shards. But it’s kinda ironic imo that most tank specs have complicated dps spec, simplified tank dps rotation, to make up for the rotations while there seems plenty there, if people wanted or saw a lack of extra ability as the problem, to just add say the 45 second +30% demon blade damage talent or a dps only mana rift or infernal sigil or a single VDH leap into the rotation at the cost of a dash… Or make VDH leaps for HDH a talentable… Those are so much fun.
You’re right, We should fix this by playing Ctrl + Alt + Windows + Q + A + D + B + Right Shift Warframe sliding spin dash Ninja. Normal Keybinds and non carpal tunnel for sake of carpal tunnel builds are for Plebs!
You know… having more abilities, procs, situational abilities, different rotations between AoE and ST… isn’t a bad thing.
Now see this is an issue but one not many will get behind. You are advocating for less buttons it seems
Too my fingers doing gymnastics it might be a problem
Is this where we bash DHs? Cuz I would like to spit some hate their way for veng being sooooooo much better than bears. I just got mine to 120, he’s at ilevel 358 (iirc) and feels like he could walk thru a warzone, snoot in the air… 
You know, when you put it that way?
The main reason is actually because that concept is actually counter-intuitive, especially with the way WoW is set-up and when looking from the outside. Outside of the realm of logs and spreadsheets… you can’t actually tell if you’re doing well or not, and quite frankly, you’re not given reason to care about it until either you run into an enrage timer or (far more likely) someone shoves a DPS meter in your face.
So you feel terrible without the game giving you any real feedback until you’re told you’ve been doing wrong all along. Just think about it… do you honestly think most people are going to take that revelation well?
Probably a good reason why people are find this game and its community increasingly alienating. You either have to get fully on board with the realm of logs, spreadsheets, hidden & obtuse gameplay… or be told you’re terrible and subjected to endless sneers which are some variant of “git gud”.
It should be a difficulty CURVE, not taking a leap off a cliff. Trying to keep complexity with fewer actual abilities will almost universally result in the latter.
… and it still feels DUMBER at the end of it all.
I can second that it’s actually pretty easy to play… but it’s actually a pretty fun job.
Probably the strangest thing is that WoW would cut the number of spells Red Mage uses in half (if not more) simply because they’re duplicates with different elements. But thanks to the history of the job (always had access to more than one school of magic) and the dual gauges for resources and needing to work on both of them at the same time… FFXIV adds a lot of variety (and fun) to what is otherwise a very simple job.
Carpal tunnel is better than pressing 3 buttons whenever they’re off cd.
Put your bear in pvp, eat forever, They’re in the basically same situations as DHs in raids and M+ but in reverse. Tank Dhs are crap in Raids, but decent in M+ (Though still… middle of the pack after Brewmaster Monk / Prot warrior S Tier doing 25+ and prot able to self heal through +23s with migration and high dps, while Monks have ultimate migration in all high content, to B tier with Pally, Dk, VDH. Then Bears are Fart tier. But they can still work.
Raid tanking though it reverses for VDHs and Bears. Well, we both still kinda are mediocre, with Monk still at the top for both progression and finishing, but we fall off after Blood DKs and do like only 60% of the single target damage of the other tanks even in our dps build vs their protection builds and lose basically all damage going a defense build that still loses to migration. Because we don’t have any specfic ST abilities, and are balanced around multiple enemies for soul shards. Our ST is our single target aoe, and it sucks at the moment until the next patch.
PVP though i hear bears are surprsingly capable in bgs and 3s, But everyone and their mom and 70% of comps want Resto druids and they’re always taken. it probably doesn’t help that DH + Resto druid is like the only viable DH comp while a Resto druid + anything is good. Like don’t get me wrong lol, anything with a Resto is good but Rogues and Mages can at least go Jungle builds and go invis and burst. But umm… Spammable cyclones just really helps with 45-60 second cd cc
Isn’t bear tanking like literally the 0 button cd class though? Press x to swipe, press b to heal, do nothing since rage takes forever. And you’re a meat tank so you just stand and stare there.
Easy hero class complains about easy hero class. /thread.
Also would like to see someone just use three buttons on a DH, nothing else and top dps over any other class at the same ilvl.
Well… not really? You have access to more than enough buttons within easy reach. Every other class does it just fine. They actually do more than just press the same buttons over and over.
When I played DH in early Legion, it was really just a few buttons - the only complex part was Momentum, which was pretty much the entirety of the complexity. Then they got rid of that. There was also the BiS legendary ring that made you take the talent that made your resource generation passive.
I don’t know if it’s changed, but Momentum is pretty much the only difficult part of the spec.
For me, class design is the most important aspect of the game. Its followed closely story and difficulty. I dropped Legion for several months to a year or longer because the dev team has lost sight of Class design.
I have mained hunter since BC and it disappoints me that I don’t enjoy it as much as I used to. My wife plays now and I’ve basically switched to full time SV so it feels like I’m playing a new class, but I’m not sure I’m going to enjoy it for another expansion of the same decisions and direction. Only time will tell. Shadowlands might be my last expansion, it might not be. Its inevitable, anyway. Sooner or later I’ll move on.
People always say blah blah class is easy, refer to button number alone and never really learn the class.
Same with people saying “BM is easy only has 3 buttons” then continues to drop frenzy stacks constantly.
If all these classes were truly that easy they would all be able to link their legendary parses on those “easy” classes.
All classes are “easy” to play in WoW. But just playing them isn’t being good at them.
Elemental Shaman, a class that I believed was rather simple actually has probably the most complex rotation in game currently. It feels easy to play, yet icy veins rotation guide is a whole page just for the quick rotation.