Demon Hunter Havoc Rolling Feedback

Classes Demon Hunter
1

Hello, below is a list of changes that I feel will help improve the state of Havoc Demons.

Class Tree

Lost in Darkness: This talent needs to be baseline or moved into the the PvP talent pool. It practically does nothing in PvE.
Replace this talent with
Reverse Magic: Giving Demon Hunters a defensive dispel in raids/dungeons would be an extremely valuable utility, similar to Shadow Priest Mass Dispel.

First of the Illidari: This talent is overshadowed by Demonic and just isn’t a competitive choice.
Make the 10% versatility buff we receive from it while in Metamorphosis split in 2 parts. So while out of Meta, you would gain 5% passive versatility and while in Meta you would gain an additional 5% versatility, totaling 10%.

Darkness: Combine Long Night & Pitch Black
Long Night & Pitch Black: Replace this node with
Netherwalk - Havoc desperately needs a reliable way to pick up this spell. We have one of the weakest active mitigation in the game.

Spec Tree

Mortal Dance: Remove the node and make it baseline. Every other class that has a “Healing Debuff” has it baseline.

Critical Chaos & Dancing with Fate: Turn these into 1 point nodes.

Unbound Chaos & Growing Inferno: Turn these into 1 point nodes.

Looks can Kill: Make this passive baseline and replace it with
Anguish of the Deceiver: Each time Eye Beam deals damage to a target, it also applies Anguish. When Anguish expires, it deals (8.4% of Attack power) Chaos damage to the victim per application.

Relentless Onslaught: Increase the chance to trigger a second Chaos Strike to 20% and swap its location with Isolated Prey.
Isolated Prey: Moved to a PvP talent and replaced with
Chaos Cleave: Chaos Strike hits all nearby enemies for an additional 10% damage.

Glaive Tempest: Add a 2nd effect “When Glaive Tempest ends, 60% of the damage it dealt erupts in an explosion of fel energy, dividing that Chaos damage among all nearby enemies.” This is essentially the secondary effect of Fury of the Illidari(Rage of the Illidari).

Fodder to the Flame/Elysian Decree: Both these talents have it uses, however Havoc is lacking a true single target cooldown that can be used on demand.
Add a 3rd option
Chaos Blades: Increases all damage done by 30% for 18 sec.
While active, your auto attack deals 150% increased damage, and causes Chaos damage.

12 Likes
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Would love to have Chaos Blades back, and maybe Fury of Illardi back instead of the glaive tempest meme we have.

3 Likes
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Added the secondary effect to Glaive Tempest.

4

Havoc is an off-spec for me, but some thoughts:

Agreed 100%. There’s no reason for Lost in Darkness to be in the class tree. It’s a PVP talent. Move it to the PVP talents. Reverse Magic would be great utility to have and is 100% thematically appropriate. Illidan’s Grasp would be another PVP talent that I’d like to see moved to the class tree personally, though I doubt it will happen.

Demonic should just be made baseline at the earliest level DH would be able to get it. Havoc relies on it for damage and without it Vengeance lacks defensive CDs. It’s toxic in design. However, this change to FotI is incredibly appealing, especially in a world where it’s not a choice node with Demonic.

I don’t think this is the move, personally. Netherwalk has little place this deep in the class tree. They should rework the class tree, reducing 2pt nodes and adding NW+DI and FE as accessible Havoc exclusive nodes earlier in the tree, then move Sigil of Silence and Sigil of Chains as Vengeance mirror nodes in the same locations.

They should then ideally (but unlikely) make Darkness a choice node with an ability similar to Zephyr in that it applies the Darkness effect to you and up to 4 allies within x yards on a 2m CD, maybe increasing the proc chance. Darkness is an incredibly niche defensive outside of raid (especially for Vengeance) when compared to things like Zephyr, Rallying Cry and AMZ and this would give reason to actually take it. Alternatively Darkness should just get flat CDR if used outside of a raid group.

2 Likes
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I feel like Netherwalk could maybe be made baseline. I agree also, Demonic could and should be baseline. Your suggestions on Darkness does make alot of sense.

3 Likes
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Suggestions:

Move Relentless Onslaught to somewhere more accessible in the tree, or allow another talent to connect to being to talent into it.
Make unbound chaos one point.
Fix Chaos Theory so that it actually works.
Buff Chaos Strike/Annhilation, or provide damage buff to this ability somehow to where it feels worth using.

1 Like
7

Good suggestions, how about we move Relentless Onslaught with Isolated Prey and change the chance to trigger to 20%.

Lets make Unbound Chaos 1 point and Growing Inferno also. We have way too many 2 point nodes.

4 Likes
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I actually wouldnt mind that, considering isolated prey feels like the most useless talent ever.

1 Like
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We can also ask for Isolated Prey to be changed to Chaos Cleave(Something that was suggested on the DH discord.

1 Like
10

What was the old version of Eye beam where x% of damage dealt was stored and erupted a second or two later? I feel like there is a lot more to work with if we went back and delved into old abilities and talents from Legion. I would like to have a talent tree/set of abilities that are specific to the types of output ST/AoE. Instead of having a mixed bag of both in one build that does well to some degree but doesn’t truly excel in its own right. That essentially would mimic having a 3rd spec as most other classes that have multiple specs they usually have their specs that excel in either ST or AoE.

Bc in its current state, admit it, Havoc is not very strong ST wise and being a class with only 1 dps spec, we are gimped.

2 Likes
11

I think relentless onslaught should lower the fury cost of Blade Dance and lower its CD by x amount per target hit with a cap obviously.

I think a lot of talents should be cut down to 1 point nodes, there is a lot of unnecessary bloat in the talent trees with removal of core abilities/passives to make the tree seem bigger and better. I think its kind of a sham the way they did that, because I would have been happier having more of my core toolkit left alone with less and more meaningful nodes in the trees.

They could give us back chaos cleave for when there is 2-3 targets, they could probably offer up a large amount of other things to make it better to use.

I also wouldn’t mind a 2 min Meta CD, as an exchange you can revert the eye beam CD back to 30 and make cycle of hatred offer Meta CDR.

2 Likes
12

I don’t remember if there was a talent that did that with Eyebeam, was it a relic? What I do remember is Fury of the Illidari with Rage of the illidari(When Glaive Tempest ends, 60% of the damage it dealt erupts in an explosion of fel energy, dividing that Chaos damage among all nearby enemies.”), which I added to Glaive Tempest.

Added both of these suggestions.

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I think it was called Anguish of the Deceiver

1 Like
14

Ahh forgot about that one, how about we replace Looks Can Kill with Anguish of the Deceiver: Each time Eye Beam deals damage to a target, it also applies Anguish. When Anguish expires, it deals (8.4% of Attack power) Chaos damage to the victim per application.

2 Likes
15

could also build upon that so that if a target dies while afflicted with it, it refreshes or amplifies the dmg to the other targets. Not sure how long the DoT would last, but thats something to build upon

or if its not a DoT like application, could make it so that if a target dies to that dmg, it provides a buff to another ability. I may be reaching at this point, but I’m just diving deep into possible new things.

1 Like
16

Yeah, I totally understand what you want. Eyebeam is definitely lackluster, there are a lot of talent points for passives associated to Eyebeam that we had baseline in the past. Giving it Anguish of the Deceiver would add some much needed customization, flavor and options.

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I dont think cleave is really where we have an issue, but in order to buff our ST without making our AoE feel giga OP is what they need to accomplish right now.

3 Likes
18

While making some pointlessly 2 point nodes 1 point, maybe make relentless onslaught 2 points: point 1 is the regular 10% chance for a second strike, point 2 ups it to 20% with a 10% chance of a third hit. This could help a little with st without making people cry that we are actually doing well.

2 Likes
19

Seems too unreliable to help consistently buff ST.

1 Like
20

only if it replaces essence break, the game needs less cooldown stacking mechanics. its getting old and is unenjoyable as a whole.

also an increase to our leech which historically was a staple of the class and is now almost nonexistent.

3 Likes