If you can’t imagine doing something that you know is going to hurt because you also know it’ll help someone else that’s kind of a you problem.
lol, according to whom?
I’d take that argument to blizzard, they are the ones that refuse to allow us to use the toys as a toggle. I have the Sin’dorei toy, I’d love if it acted like a toggle, I’d just run around RPing as my Blood Elf shaman and I’d be fine and good.
It wasn’t the class lore that lost them subs… I’d argue the villain batting of a very popular character did that as did the generally toxic mechanics of shadowlands…
To paraphrase a friend of mine, “The game shouldn’t make you not want to be somewhere.” Yet that’s exactly what the Maw’s mechanics were designed to do.
I think you might be surprised about which side of the coin you are on.
In my experience most people seem to like the idea of expanding the classes. Yes, many also want the lore to work, but the majority that I know and play with just want the extra options. I want the lore to at least attempt to make sense.
That said, I’ll admit I’m human and that makes me biased. I don’t have a comprehensive data set to work with to determine what is true and not true of the views of the actual majority of players. But this is also true of any of us.
Perhaps it’s your lack of wisdom regarding the lore that lends you your cavalier attitude towards it.
Channeling the light to heal others causes them agony. Filling themselves directly with the light would make them explode. Paladins literally counter undead…
Idk? The Legion expansion? We captured Sargerus and pushed back the legion to Argus, killed the world soul that made them endless in number. Have you seen many demons recently?
We at least agree the toys should be revamped. Toggle would be fine in open/world and pve content.
The lingering fallout from SL wasn’t content droughts or annoying zones. It was the damage done to beloved lore hero’s like Uther and arguably their best ever villain.
Touching the lore in anyway is something that should be done with great care. Wonton changes to the core of the game shoe-horn in a stupid villain with unclear motives was unforgivable. I say if you want to retcon anything, let everything after deadmines 2.0 be part of the fever dream from that poison Vanessa sapped us with. Reset, try again. Ghosts make no sense now. Spirit healers too. Just sucks.
Out of curiosity: when did you start playing WoW? I’m guessing either newish player or vet that become so jaded they simply don’t care if anything part of the story remains intact and coherent/cohesive
I’d take that up with blizzard. We can hem and haw all day long about the lore, but they decide what is and isn’t true.
Undead Priests say hello.
Have you not seen all of the new warlocks lately? Also, irrelevant because blizzard hasn’t decided to have another expansion with demons.
You can always pretend that is how it went. Not gonna pretend that it didn’t need a serious rethinking of, however Shadowlands happened and nothing we say will make it not happen.
I’m a vet, first week of initial launch… but I’m also new, just recently came back from a rather long break. Vanished during Wrath and returned at mid way through season 2 of DF.
From my perspective that’s a bridge long burned and lost. All you are doing is raging into the darkening night and nothing you do will stop the dawn that is coming. The classes will be unlocked for the races and the lore will change over time.
Just look at what they did to the Blood Elves within what was basically a single expansion.
There’s a truth life tries to teach us that many have a hard time with. Nothing is eternal, everything changes.
Yup
Hopefully what they do isn’t a rash decision to please people that’ll come and go.
The first line channeling the light to heal was in reference to undead priests, that channel the light to heal. Opposed to paladins, which fill themselves with it to fight (traditionally the undead)
I wonder why they haven’t. Play legion and get back at me. My point aside, it was their last great expansion story wise. DF isn’t as terrible as BFA and SL though. Irridikron is a decent villain.
That lends even more to my argument.
The “change” in lore should be when it’s built upon, not altered. I think your opinion that change is destined to be some inevitable march towards absurdity and loss of all integrity really sad. Maybe I’m wrong in thinking lines will be drawn between accommodating niche players whims and fundamentally removing all the things that made WoW feel like a world; full of different races with diffferent, yet clear, modus operandi and cultures. Many different colors with clear borders. But if you people want grey they’ll give you grey I guess
Warcraft Paladins started out as Priests and Warriors who cross trained with each other to become warriors who could heal. What you are describing is already a change in the Lore.
Also, channeling/filling it’s all semantics you are using the light. You can cut hairs as fine as you like but it doesn’t change anything.
Already did. Doesn’t change my point, the absense of Demons will only hold for so long as the Devs want it to. Nothing that has come before will ever stop them from telling the stories they desire to tell. As for how they will pull it off… their current favorite toy is to very poorly use the “Unreliable Narrator” technique.
You seem to be under the impression that if I just see something you think I haven’t seen or read something I haven’t read I’ll suddenly regard the Lore like you do. That isn’t going to happen. I don’t pretend that I have any influence on the Lore.
Even if we were Alpha and Beta Readers working for Blizzard’s writers our opinions hold no more weight because ultimately it is the Writers and thus the Devs themselves that hold all the power and they alone decide what is or isn’t true and is or isn’t set in stone.
Only in the begging and only for some class/halls and zone storylines. It’s still a mess of toxic tropes and ends on a whimper instead of the roar it could have. Argus was a joke and that ending was weak. Worse part was the stupidity involving Sylvanas and setting her up to be villain batted…
That’s a bar that was below ground.
Give them time.
Lore was already altered many times. Even your own class is altered lore.
That’s an assumption you’ve made about my desires.
Define cultures?
I grew up in a small town that is culturally different from next closest town, barely ten minutes away, so much so that people from the two towns don’t like their kids hanging around each other…
In wow, it’s Pillars… Those are Night Elves… Those are Humans… That’s the Horde and That’s the Alliance.
Where you see grey, I see a riot of color and potential left ignored and hidden away by a flat uninteresting Caricature of the vibrancy that could be Azeroth.
I want to hear the story of the Blood Elf Shaman who struggle to find their place in a society that once saw them as a mistake.
I want to hear the story of the Orc Druids learning to find balance with nature.
I want to hear the Story of the Worgen Paladins learning to find peace within themselves.
To me these aren’t grey, these are colors that haven’t been seen before because the grey of the old unchanging world had tried to pretend, they couldn’t exist. To me the old world was a dull one with washed out colors that couldn’t begin to show just how amazing the world really was, but now that layer of grim is being removed and the painters are finding old patches that masked inconvenient ideas that are only now coming to light.
Dracthyr and Moonkin customisation is the way to go for metamorphosis customisation without a doubt.
But there is something else that is fundamental that we need for maximum personalization and immersion, the voice of the inner demon speaking to us like some artifact weapons did during legion.
“you will fall”
“Yes! YES! FREE ME!”
“We are not so different you now?”
“hehehe you need me” (when you run out of resources, or better yet, when get stun)
It shouldn’t be a problem, anyone who has read Illidan’s novel or has been informed about it knows that the DH are mostly crazy, the Inner Demon, if it is a demonic version of us, could also be a separate personality that competes for control or acceptance .
It is supposed that a DH’s abilities vary slightly depending on the demon they consumed, considering that it would be interesting if something similar to the hunter aspects in classic or the warrior stances were for the DH but with a demon theme.
One of the things that could change the stance is our control, instead of having ston su you have the aspect/stance of a succubus instead of stun you have some type of seduce, if you have that of the Felhunter you have a manaburn or similar, etc etc.
“No. Look it up yourself. It’s readily available info.”
If it has been removed from lore or the game, then no its not readily available.
I have never once heard or have seen ( including reading and listening to wow books) ever heard of other races besides elfs and murlocks, ever becoming demonhunters.
I think it was completely valid to ask for a resource when making a claim such as that, while also pointing to lore saying " There were some non elven demon hunters that were from some now outdated lore. Combined with the fact that wow was originally going to have that as a class option at launch for all races."
I too would like a resource backing up these claims. Whenever your making an official statement about lore claiming npc or in this case non elf demonhunters it is normal and valid to ask " ok if thats true, fair. Can i see the resource to back that up."
That like writing a professional paper claiming ocean water can cure depression, with no evidence other then " theres been reports about it."
Ok what reports what are your resources. " no you cant ask me about those just look your self, they are somewhere out there find them"
Thats not how it works, if you make a claim be prepared to validate it or back it up with proof."
So asking that question was good on you, i would have asked the same thing.
Fyi:
Did even more research relistened to a few different wow books. Not one thing mentions non elf demonhunters ( other then murlocks)
No. Learn more about Demon Hunter lore and you’ll understand why that won’t happen.
Nope. They weren’t at Black Temple, they weren’t converted and trained by Illidan, so they can’t be demon hunters. They didn’t even exist yet.
Demon Hunters have the best lore and origin story in all of WoW. Let’s not screw that up just because someone who’s not into lore thinks another race would look cool. Read the novel “Illidan”. Best WoW book ever, imho. Illidari were desperate enough to find their way to another world in search of Illidan, and sacrificed everything for a chance to fight the Legion. 80% died in the ritual, and half the survivors committed suicide when they realized what they were becoming. This wasn’t a simple career choice. And to the best of our knowledge, every single demon hunter was transformed and trained by Illidan Stormrage.
Their Metamorphosis is not a toggle spell like it is for worgen and dracthyr. Also, DH is not a race, these are races. DH is the only class that has this much class exclusive customization options, not even DK does this much.