I don’t know what people expect though. I would love to see great balancing for both solo + group play on Delves. I don’t honestly believe that Blizzard is capable of it.
We had Mage Tower which had huge disparity between classes even though it was made to be done solo only. We have classes currently that are super overtuned and 1 that is so poorly undertuned that as a dps it compete with tanks for dmg.
I don’t see how that same company can balance solo and group play without making group delves just be HP sponges. (Which they were actually. Blizz adjusted the scaling down and reduced HP and Dmg based on group size)
Sept 10th patch notes.
This does matter, and that has nothing to do with caring about how easy it is to others.
Delves do not exist in a vacuum. The quality of the gear Delves are able to provide will largely be dictated by how easy or difficult they are for groups of 5 to clear, not solo players.
As a predominantly solo player, I would like the end game progression system Blizzard are offering to me to be both challenging and rewarding - I’d argue that’s a tenet of end game progression.
But if Delves are significantly easier in groups then, like I said, that’s what dictates the rewards Blizzard will offer to me as a solo player regardless of whether or not I’m using groups to trivialise the content. Players that do play group content will take the path of least resistance and if that’s Delves, then Delves will become a part of their gearing process.
At this stage a tier 8 Delve offers roughly equivalent gear to a M +5 dungeon (according to Wowheads season 1 pages for M+ and Delves in TWW). If Delves remain easy for groups to clear, then that is liable to impact how people interact with the lower half of M+.
Hopefully Blizz adjust the scaling of Delves for groups instead of just nerfing the rewards to make running them less appealing for group-oriented players. I think nerfing the rewards would feel really bad for the solo players using it as a form of progression.
I agree. I think the fact that tier 8 Delves are already being cleared solo this early on by this many players is not ideal. But maybe that’s more a symptom of the gear (and relative difficulty) being capped at ~M +5 level. I imagine M +5s are going to be cleared by plenty of people in a similar timeframe.
It’s also probably tied in with them not being solo only, as if groups can clear a tier 8 early on while a solo player can’t then Blizzard would undoubtedly receive backlash (justified or not).
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I may not hold Blizzard is the highest regards as a developer, but I honestly dont believe they would reduce rewards in Delves because of its difficulty in a group. It would effect them in a very large and negative way both finacially and on media.
Delves are a huge welcome addition and most people in my guild (we’re literally just solo players who talk in guild chat) only came back to WoW because there was a solo progression path with meaningful rewards. I’d happily leave WoW again if they screwed Solo players in delves because of group players and most of my guild would aswell.
I do think they’ll tune it though. They should tune it if in a group it is indeed as easy as players say (I’ll never test it so im taking others for their word on this). We’ve seen them adjust it once already for group play and most people didn’t even know about it unless they read patch notes. I have no doubt that they’ll do it again as they see the amount of people clearing Delves in groups vs solo this week.
I predict that delves are going to be an easy cake walk shooting out heroic ilvl gear for solo players. Like someone else already said though, it’s day 2… When you maximise Bran/ get better gear/ learn the mechanics, you are going to be just slam dunking these delves.
It’s like the 5 mask visions on n’zoth solo runs. I didn’t get it day 2 of the season and it pretty much felt impossible then, but once I learned all the mechanic and maximised all the little things to help with sanity and had decent gear it was quite manageble.
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All offering the same low level gear despite the difficulty. Keys should be an item class higher but they are the only way to get useful gear.
How do you do this, though? How do you make it such that a group with a tank and dedicated healer will take just as much time as the squishiest of DPS specs? I mean you could balloon the health of mobs by an astronomical amount per each extra player such that everything is a damage sponge, but who does that serve? Those encounters won’t be more difficult for the group, just take more time for the sake of taking more time. Vindictive game design is never a good idea…
I get the frustration, but I think you’re completely ignoring the sheer difficulty that exists with trying to do what you are demanding Blizzard should have done. Without homogenizing the classes to the point where literally every class is the same with different cosmetic flavor, there will always be certain players with an easier time in content than others. MMORPG class design is built around the idea that every spec has pros and cons; adding other players that remove those cons is always going to create an efficiency that will not be possible from solo players. Brann exists to help sure up those cons when you are playing solo, but until he’s rolling at a level commiserate with our power, it’s going to fall short of having another player to fill that void.
For the player that truly wants to experience the game solo, competition doesn’t matter. They are only competing with themselves and their own interests. The fact that I am able to turn raid and M+ gear into soloing tier 11 delves 3 weeks into the season doesn’t negate the solo player’s ability to solo tier 11 delve 3 months into the season. You’re either leaving out some important detail in this scenario that would explain this disconnect or intentionally misrepresenting solo play so you can continue to be outraged.
And nothing about Delves forces you to play with other people. And if your intention isn’t to play with other people, the fact that other people have found a more efficient way to clear the content you’re capable of clearing solo doesn’t matter.
I’m sorry, what? If I am someone who wants to raid and have down-time, and am going to choose to group up for the content I do in that down-time, I’m going to run M+. The rewards are better, not limited by bountiful delve chests, and the challenge doesn’t stop at some arbitrary cap.
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They absolutely will, IIRC Ion stated in an interview that they’ll be keeping an eye on them over the next few months.
And realistically, M+ could get released with Delves not having any noticeable impact on them at all. Time will tell.
Having had the opportunity to play in them a bit more, my main concern now is spec balance for solo as I think addressing that would be a bit more involved than just number tuning.
I’m clearing tier 8 delves as Unholy on this ~560ilvl DK with a level 17 Brann and I don’t think that’s because I’m an amazing player, I just think DK has a really good kit for it (unsurprising, it’s always been a good solo class).
While part of me is happy to be getting decent gear without having to grind other sources, I am a little concerned about the longevity of Delves as progression content for some classes/specs.
The jump between 7 and 8 was pretty noticeable, and if there’s a similar jump between the tiers from 9 onwards then it’ll definitely take some work. But I do wonder how you balance Delves as they currently are to the point where they’re challenging enough to every spec and not overbearing to a sizeable portion of them.
I wonder if instead of pre-set talents, the companion would be better off with spec specific talents that give players a couple of options per node. That way Blizz can give the specs that lack good solo tools a decent boost without also boosting specs like Unholy which already feel pretty strong in Delves. The Delves would then at least have a more even baseline to be balanced around for solo play.
Might also be a good idea to make those talents solo only to avoid compounding any issue with balancing the group side of things - groups could keep the generic talents the companions currently have. That would also allow Blizzard to go wild with the spec specific talents as they wouldn’t have to worry about how they react or play inter-spec.
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Yeah, the class/spec balance is the biggest concern. I honestly don’t mind it taking longer to complete on some specs (As in more weeks of gearing), but for the people who main classes like Rogue and Priest who have 1 interrupt on a long cooldown… I can only imagine how hard a t6+ is at the moment.
That being said, that’s something Blizz will have to figure out because outside of what you had for ideas, I don’t see a good way to implement anything without them having to go in and tune every single delve for every single class/spec. That unfortunately isn’t very realistic since it would be 8-12 Mage Towers essentially…
Never done delves in a group but soloing tier 7 around the gear level recommended ilevel the challenge is as expected and got some champion gear out of it. The only real complaint I have is the lack of a tank option for Brann. It is probably the only issue that makes group play easier because there is really no strategy needed to make up for a missing role. Solo is like back in the heroic TBC days where each mob pull needs to be thought about and even consider the use of CC. If people want to miss out on the experience that is on them, does not change my experience at all.
If you attack something quickly and walk away for a sec Brann will take aggro. Let him attack for like 1 minute and he gets a pretty sizable threat lead.
I just completed a T9 last night and he had the boss aggro the entire fight.
I know it’s not a full “tank” role, but it looks like you just gotta let him do his thing for a sec.
I’m clearing 8s, and I’m casual AF.
Haven’t set foot in a M0, because I hate the M+ community, did like half of the new raid.
I am a tank though, and imo Brann should have a tank spec too. Some of these bosses aoe, like stinging swarm, need to be able to be outranged. I can’t imagine some classes even surviving.
It’s possible that, with the current gear level we are able to obtain, delves aren’t soloable (at least easily) for most classes. I’ve done a 7 solo as an enhance shaman with a 590 item level and it was a very close call on finishing. Imagine two weeks from now when most people have their 4 PC and our gear level has increased exponentially, do you think you will still have a problem soloing over an 8 delve? Maybe instead of running here to gripe about a seemingly non existent issue instead stop expecting everything to be handed to you. Having a challenge isn’t a bad thing in a video game.
After years as group player I’m now mostly a solo player. My friends have slowly left the game or play very irregularly. I could start over in a new guild but prefer just to doodle around on my own. I have solod delves up to 6 - haven’t died once yet. My gear is not great. A ww monk does well in this sort of solo content - I do have to wait for cooldowns though so I’m slow. Brann for me is only level 11 - so may do some alts to level him up more before trying 7 or 8 - 6 was tough for me.
I am not fussed about whether its 4 people or 1 person - it was advertised as both. What is an issue is that from reading many posts, it seems like it is much easier in a group than as solo. That means once I hit trouble with level 7 and 8 - which I will, that I’ll feel like I’ll have to run it in a group because at my age ‘get gud’ is not on the cards.
It literally says Can be done solo and the issue is that they cant because bosses are tuned to having undodgeable and uninterruptable moves that one shot non tanks.
On the flip side in a group the content is boring and too easy and you juat steam roll it
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Dunno About this take it’s easy to do delves solo
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They are easier in a group, most notably in a smaller group. Like 2-3 people. 4-5, stuff starts scaling out of whack. Learned that the hard way.
You don’t have to do it in a group. You don’t have to do tier 8s if you’d rather not. It doesn’t matter if people are able to get them done easier and quicker because that has no effect on a solo player. The important bit was to give solo players a goal to work towards by themselves. There’s a progression system of gradually leveling Brann and getting better gear week by week instead of your content basically being world events like soup or centaur hunts and that’s it.
This doesn’t really make sense. If you do things in a group, of course it’s going to be easier, because you have other people to cover for you. If you’re solo, you only have what you and your Brann can do.
If you’re playing solo, you don’t have to do anything. Not only will you eventually get enough gear through the vault and doing delve runs several times a week, you’ll eventually be able to surpass it. But even if that wasn’t the case, if you’re playing solo, you cannot be “left behind”. It’s not as if no one is going to invite you to groups, because you’re playing solo.
Not accurate. The entire party simply has to be present (however many are in the party). You can absolutely solo launch a m+. I’ve done it many times just to see how far I could get solo.
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I only said that 5 people have to be there to start the key. If the other four want to leave and let the fifth solo, go for it. The post I quoted said “You can walk into a M+ solo” which isn’t true.